Middle class men are more likely to actively parent?

[Bananapancakes00]

Just based on observations of people I know, on average, middle class men are more likely to share childcare duties, especially of babies, when not working. Whereas working class men tend to believe it's the woman's job to look after young children. Not saying either is better, just a difference in attitudes and social norms. Aibu?

Interesting. The middle class men I know are heavily involved. Even more so in cases like mine where we both work. Whilst it is clearly a good thing, there are some amusing examples of performance parenting where the middle class dad in Lycra will hold court at social events telling everybody about just how involved he is.

Good observation. 👍

Sure I saw a study backing this up - higher educated people are less likely to subscribe to stereotypical gender norms so yeah probably true generally speaking.

Won't be true of everyone of course but on average yes.

I think working class might traditionally see cooking and cleaning as more "women's work", but childcare and parenting isn't necessarily included in that. If a man enjoys being a parent and wants to be involved with his children then he will be, regardless of class.

I think it’s more about having decent role models - My Dad was an active Dad and his Dad was also (talking about the 1950/1960)

My husband parents separated but before they divorced his Dad was also active parent he picked up my husband from school his shift pattern allowed it. When they separated his Dad still did the caring even when he remarried his step Mum wasn’t the default carer his Dad did the parenting when he stayed over.

My husband is also a hands on Dad - class is irrelevant.

I’ve notice completely the opposite.

From my experience those on a council estate are less likely to have such extreme gender stereotypes and both sexes will e.g. take the bins out, change a tyre, cut the grass etc as well as be a hands on parent.

Whereas I’ve noticed with middle and upper class, the stereotypes are much stricter.
With men having the ‘important’ job and the mum staying home and cooking and cleaning etc. Even if she has a good job herself, I’ve noticed there are still stereotypes.

I’ve noticed many times on these threads where the DH will go out for drinks after work or spend hours on the weekend with a hobby like golfing or cycling and the woman is left as the default parent. And there are posters who will say it’s their DHs job to take the bins out etc whilst it’s their job to do laundry and this carries on with the parenting.

Perhaps this is more of a SAHP thing rather than a class thing but again you’re more likely to be a SAHP if you’re middle or upper class so it’s difficult to distinguish.

I don't particularly like the 'working class' and "middle class' terms as mean different to different people.

But I have observed at our primary that the only children with Dads doing pick ups and drop offs seem to be the ones where both parents work in professional roles - ones likely to need a degree - nurses, teachers, drs, physios, lawyers, surveyors etc. Those with one or both parents in jobs which don't require a degree, in vast majority of cases its the mum doing all pick ups and drop off, in some cases this is because they are single mums where the Dads see at weekends or not at all.

I'm thinking it's because these roles allow a proportion of working from home which gives more flexibility, but I think thete us also an attitude element to this. When I was saying how long my commute is, one if the mums (teaching assistant) responded with a horrified 'your husband doesn't earn enough for you not to work', my husband would never force me to work, in our house he works for money and I work for fun.

And possibly less financial stress?

This

Hmm… I’m on the fence. At our MC school there are the occasional dads there, often with the mum who are very involved in the school and other parents. Not often they are there on their own though.
About 10 mins down the road where I pass for work, I was surprised to see a large number of dads doing the school run. I don’t like to judge but I’d guess they are unemployed, with about 4 kids in tow. I even saw one with a can in his hand 🥴 nonetheless, they were doing the pick-up so therefore involved and present

I think you are conflating working class and rough people. My dad was working class, he went to the pub every single day so any outings had to be curtailed ie you couldn’t be out all day as he had to get back for the pub. So his child rearing must have been limited My husband I assume is still working class, retired police inspector doesn’t go out like that so much more available and did school pick ups drop offs etc. my dad did it sometimes but always reeked of beer as he’d been to the pub at lunchtime.

Not in my immediate experience, no. But I'm Gen X, and in my view we have a lot of talk but not the walk when it comes to equality of the sexes.

This. My own dad, solicitor and a very hands on dad and definitely pulled his weight in the home. My ex, working class to the core. Shit partner and even worse father, deadbeat to the core

I think this is true to some extent, obviously it's a generalization.

Although - it might be that we could reframe it, and say that in middle class households, more women take on a male pattern of working and paying for daily childcare, and then both mother and father take a turn at off-hours childcare.

Whereas in wc households I think it's been more common for women to take a break from paid employment when kids are younger, as the wages don't cover childcare as well, and also in some cases they may see work more as a means to an end rather than a career and be very happy to see being a SAHM as a calling, at least for a few years.

There also could be something of a skills differernce. Among MC people, a lot of the jobs are pretty evenly divided among the sexes, and they may be more likely to also pay for other household work like repairs or yard work. Leaving both to manage cleaning and children.

It's not unusual in wc homes to see the employment as more divided by sex as well - women in more traditionally female jobs (care work, including childcare, shop assistants, cleaners, secretarial,) and men are more likely to be in trades. And you see the same division of labour at home - the mother may well be managing the finances, cleaning, household admin, and childcare, while the father takes care of household repairs, yard maintenance, can care, and other heavy jobs.

My dad was very much working class. Raised by a single mum on a low income, young dad himself, he was an amazing hands on dad. He worked shifts so always did school pick up and cooked for us after school. I don’t remember him doing laundry but he did most of the cleaning and hoovering.

I know plenty of middle class men who fucked off leaving family number 1 to make a new, shiny n family with very little regard of the first.

So no not my experience.

I'd like to see the data on this. I don't think it's as simple as social class and there are lots of other factors. My DH from a working class background had very strong role models for hands on fatherhood. His ex-miner uncle did the childcare for his GCs for example. DH has a senior 'middle class' job but is very present and children come first. He has no respect for men who put their hobbies ahead of their family time.

Obviously if you need to work all hours to make rent and have a blue collar job where you don't control your workload then you're going to have less flexibility than if you have a management job where you can work from home for example.

Definitely this. My Dad was very involved when home. Couldn't do pick ups etc to school as worked long hours as an architect, but was very involved when home. Doing alternate night's when we were babies, he took us out swimming and for ice cream etc Saturday mornings so my mum got a lie in and a relax, same on Sundays - despite him being up at 6am every morning to be on a 6.45 train down to London - so he never got a lie in. Did all the washing up when home etc. He insisted that her role as a SAHM was much harder than his, he showed her such respect. So when I married I looked for a man who viewed me ad his equal and would take an active role in parenting.

But the opposite can also be true. My very involved DH grew up with a Dad who was a builder who proudly boasted he never ever changed a nappy. DH was determined to do different. Sane for my Dad who grew up with a Dad who was mechanic.

Not convinced. I secretly suspect that middle class men are good at playing the ole and talking about what they are doing but actually being there and stepping up - I’m not so sure.

I live in a WC area and there are loads of very involved dads - lots of shift work including night shifts specifically chosen to share childcare. I also think it might be due to couples on average meeting and settling down younger in more WC areas - putting everything "in the pot" (money, time, resources) to build an empire together.

However there are also lots of single mums doing it completely on their own with no support whatsoever - I agree with the poster above who said the matriarchal grandmother often takes on a kind-of co-parent role in that case.

Entirely down to the individual not their “class”.

My dad’s working class, very present, his dad was working class and was very much a “it’s a woman’s job” to raise the kids. My husband is working class and is very present and hands on, his dad who was the same age as mine was working class and he was absent for all his kids. 50/50 on what kind of man you have kids with.

@TempestTost

I agree with your analysis but would also add that MC couples are more likely to have moved for work and so not have family support filling in the gaps.

I don’t think class has got anything to do with it.

Someone on Mumsnet please tell me what class my baby daddy is? Works a relatively well paid office job but we had our first child at 16 which is ghetto behaviour right?

He's a good dad either way

More anecdotal evidence, but I've taught in very middle/upper middle class schools and also working class - I met MANY more dads at parents' meetings in the middle class schools and know that a huge proportion of children in the working class ones barely knew theirs.

These were the sorts of working class areas in which is was common for parents to not actually though.

Middle-class men are more likely to have middle-class wives who have nice middle-class professional jobs and the family's nice middle-class lifestyle depends on her keeping that job so the husband has to pull his weight more.

That's less the case for lower-earning women for whom childcare would be more than their whole pay.