Please, please, please put away your phones...

[User63859]

Just witnessed a mother (and father) totally ignore their 18 month old (ish) child on the tube. Both of them totally engrossed in their phones. The baby was sat up in a buggy, awake (at 11pm but that's another issue) and had moments of trying to get their mother's attention. At one point the child leaned out of the buggy and buried its head in its mother's lap.

Not even a flinch from the mother. So concerned with scrolling (looking at a fashion website fwiw), she literally didn't even make eye contact.

It was heartbreaking. What are we doing to our children? Before all the late night trolls start piling in I'm not saying I'm a perfect parent, we all have our weaknesses, but witnessing this has literally made me so so sad. I think what made me even sadder is the fact the baby just seemed to accept it. They tried to get the smallest acknowledgment from their mother, failed so just sat there staring into space. Oh, and watching their mother prioritise a bit of metal over them.

Please, for the love of whatever, put away your phones. We all like a scroll and a moan on mumsnet but do it when your kids are in bed. I'm so tired of seeing all this shit parenting and worrying about what a messed up world my son is going to grow up in.

To those that are guilty of this, one day you will long for these days back again and by then it will be too late and you'll be wondering why your kids need so much therapy.

Be better, please.

In OP's scenario the fact that this little one went a whole half hour without becoming distressed means, either, there's no issue here and she was actually half asleep or something.

Or that the child is so accustomed to being ignored they have learnt that displaying distress doesn't matter, and while they still seek attention because it's their basic need, the damage has already been done and they don't expect the interaction to come until they have made much longer attempts. Children that are accustomed to their parents reacting to them don't suddenly find it normal and not distressing for their parents to totally ignore them for prolonged periods of time.

Came to say the same thing. You never know the full story when you observe a stranger, so try to take that into consideration.
For all you know that mother spent 3 hours prior to that on a train fully immersed in playing and distracting her baby from a tantrum or a melt down and she was taking 5 mins for herself once baby was more settled.

The thing is, it is healthy to ignore your kids! I was raised in the late Seventies/Eighties when we’d be sent out to play so our parents could get on with stuff - and have a break. Now family life is entirely child-focused and it can be utterly exhausting. So I get why parents rely on tech - I can’t say I wouldn’t do the same if my teen was little now. But the worry is the impact it has and your nephew not talking until he was three looks related. Our friend’s DD has speech delay too.

To be fair while these parents don’t sound great, it’s such a massive myth that mums in the past were super attentive and always interacted with their kids. Kids were often stuck in a pram at the bottom of the garden while the mum got on with household chores. And in the pre contraception days when people had 6 or more kids, no way were children given the attention they get today yet they managed fine.
Also the point about it being 11 pm is a good one. It might have been deliberate so that he would sleep. Although I wouldn’t have ignored - I’d have said “time to sleep” and then not interacted.

Would we have the same reaction if the mother was engrossed in a newspaper or a book?
i remember sitting in cafes with my parents both engrossed in the sunday papers and having to keep myself entertained…

I live in a flat and my balcony is right opposite a playground. I take my toddler there and often sit on my balcony, and can easily recognise the people in the playground in both cases.

There was one particular mother and toddler I'd see very frequently before the weather turned foul. She often put him into the swing.

I'm not kidding, she would always spend the entire time he was in the swing staring at her phone. She'd stand to his side, not behind him, but she'd barely be pushing the swing. She'd just be staring at her phone, occasionally tapping at it. He'd be looking at her, appearing to be desperate for her attention, but no, she was on the phone. He didn't even say anything, didn't ask her to push him, didn't make a sound (which my nonverbal toddler would) to get her attention and to ask her to push him.

It always saddened me. I wonder if she'll start bringing him again once spring restarts? I'm curious as to how his verbal development and how his attachment to her has come along.

I'd also see other parents (yes, fathers too), walking their babies and toddlers while glued to their phones, either staring at them like the aforementioned mother or taking calls, but usually the calls (I'd sometimes listen for a few seconds, sue me!) would be about nothing particularly important.

Why, I ask, why can't they just wait until their children are either asleep or aren't wanting their attention to go on their phones? If it's important, sure, but if not, why? What, do they expect that when they're their deathbeds they'll sincerely be lying there wishing they'd spend more time on social media or something?

I live in a former Eastern Bloc country, and in certain situations people tend to directly look at each other and say hello or at least acknowledge the other person's presence (being English, I don't always like it, but it's normal here!) but this lady and these other parents never once did that with either me or other people. It's such a shame.

How on earth would I know it’s me? Also, if they first thing they did was log on to MN as soon as they got home instead of resettling kids, going to bed or relaxing with their partner, then OP is probably spot on about a screen addiction!

I think the point that some are making is that literally the majority of people are addicted to screens (mostly smartphones). So tut tutting at specific groups (families in restaurants, toddlers on trains - and ironically there’s actually a better rationale for the entertainment/distraction of a screen value in these instances than there is in 90% of other situations) is almost to deflect from the wider problem - that unless we act now as a society, we’re nearing a stage when EVERYONE will be hopelessly addicted. “Be a good parent” or “Show more will power” didn’t stop people smoking, and it won’t get people off their phones either.

As a point of comparison, global tobacco is worth 1 trillion, while Apple alone is worth 3 trillion. And Apple is just one company among thousands of tech companies which are happy for us to be gawping at a screen all day. In fact much more than just happy - their profits insist it. But unlike smoking, governments are totally complacent toward the grip big tech has over our lives. As long as we remain functioning economic units, they couldn’t give a shit if we are all zombified both in and out of the office.

Imagine you were that parent. It's 11pm and your kid has refused to drop off. You decide you'll try and make them sleep on the train on the way home after a long day. You don't engage because then no sleep will happen.

The kid put it's head in it's mother's lap. If I'm imagining the scene you describe (having plucked it out of thin air in order to go to great lengths to justify these parents' shit behaviour), I would stroke the child's head, not remain glued to my phone.

OP,

Honestly, just mind your own business. You do not know what goes on in others lives. Pull up your judgy pants.

We were once in a coffee shop in Amsterdam with our 2 early teens. My DH was on his phone. This man came up to us and gave my DH a lecture about being on his phone, a bad parent etc. in front of his DC. My DH, a passive, gentle person, said nothing.

I on the other hand ripped him a new arsehole and I don't think this man will intrude/ stick his nose in/ be judgemental again thinking he will get away with it.

We were having a lovely break in Amsterdam and my DH was googling restaurants to take our DC somewhere really nice to enjoy a lovely family meal. Hardly a terrible parent.

Also, how did you type this post? Was it on your phone or laptop? Why dont you get off your device and go make some homemade play dough and bake zucchini wholemeal muffins from scratch with your DC instead?

At my last job, I have witnessed two children who were sitting in shallow trolleys (no child seat) stood up. Their mothers didn't notice this as busy on their phones. Only reacted when heard trolley flip backwards and kid screaming.
If their mums were not staring at their phones, they would have probably either lifted the child out of the trolley or told them to sit down. I do hate parents who put children in trolleys where its not designed for them to sit in them.

I know one child's head was split open and was concussed (she vomited a few mins after). Was sent to hospital. Unsure about the 2nd child as that happened as going home via buying a few items.

If the mother didn't have her eyes glued onto the phone, her child would not be in pain and obtain a scar on head for rest of his life. When child and mother were in the process of leaving the store to board an ambulance, one woman shouted "you are more concerned about your phone than your child". Not sure if the mum heard this because when in shock, you don't hear everything.

I hate it. There was a little girl about the same age glued to a phone on the bus yesterday, they didn’t speak to her the whole time and she didn’t look up from her phone. Both parents were staring at their phones too.

I was about to post exactly the same. Yes, they might have been ignoring child so it would settle, but to not react at all, to not even look at the child when he put his head in her lap, is so sad. A little stroke, some words of comfort, you’d expect. Especially on the Tube when it’s usually busy and noisy at that time. A child that age might need more reassurance.

@ExpatMum41

I'd also see other parents (yes, fathers too), walking their babies and toddlers while glued to their phones, either staring at them like the aforementioned mother or taking calls, but usually the calls (I'd sometimes listen for a few seconds, sue me!) would be about nothing particularly important.
Why, I ask, why can't they just wait until their children are either asleep or aren't wanting their attention to go on their phones? If it's important, sure, but if not, why? What, do they expect that when they're their deathbeds they'll sincerely be lying there wishing they'd spend more time on social media or something?

Have you honestly never heard of something called “addiction”?

This poster also doesn't seem to have a concept of mum's needing connection with other adults, hence the calls.

I often speak to my mum while out and about with DD, as she's miles away and works so those are the times that fit in. DD loves it, sometimes Granny is in Mummy's ear (headphones, for ease), sometimes she's on speaker, sometimes she's on video.

The chats themselves aren't "important" but that connection is.

And yes, on my deathbed I won't be worried about social media time, but I'll be happy I had that connection with my mum despite the physical distance between us.

Yeah, these types are terrible. Phone addiction is a massive problem which affects all of us but we could do without the targeted judgy behaviour. There not trying to make the world better, they’re just trying to make themselves look/feel better.

There is no doubt that there is a screen addiction issue and many parents are needlessly scrolling or using their phones inappropriately.. but we also need to bear in mind that we are also forced to do so much through our phones..

Things I do on my phone that aren’t scrolling or shopping:
All Banking
Topping up Parent Pay for school
Checking Google Classroom for homework
Checking in on my elderly parents and checking their ring door bell etc.
Organise playdates & sleepovers
Book tickets & Restaurants
Book after school & holiday clubs
Online food Shopping
Manage my own freelance business..

Manage the families hospital/GP appointments, prescriptions etc.

Oh stop.
Dripfeeding now you've been called out, just stop.

"ripped him a new arsehole..."

Tells us everything we need to know, doesn't it?

Oh come on. Unless you're a literal angel on earth you DO judge people. It's human nature! Maybe personal experience has made you less judgemental than some, but you can't claim you don't judge.

And, speaking as someone who, like your aunt, has a ND child and who most definitely gets judged when her child acts out in public because of her autism, I'm sticking to the above point. From other people's perspectives, they have no idea that my daughter acts the way she does because of her autism, it's not like I've had t-shirts with "I am autistic" printed out for her, they might just see a child who's acting out, and therefore attribute her behaviour to bad parenting. I actually don't care, not unless they say something, then I'm angry. As it is, I end up apologising for her behaviour a lot and have even offered to pay for people's drinks or snacks in cafes because she's grabbed them.

As for you being bullied, I too was bullied horribly at primary and secondary school, and the bullying even continued further into my early adulthood with some people I encountered, but the fact that people have a different opinion to you and that people judge others is NOT IN ITSELF bullying. In fact, OP writing a non-identifying post about the conduct of some parents none of us know is NOT bullying, it's stoking debate on an issue that's, whether you agree or not, increasingly causing problems in society. As for standing up against "the bullies" you see online, seriously, holier than thou or what? It's admirable that you stick up for people in real life, but you can't expect people to not have opinions about certain types of behaviour.

Logging off now, my baby's awake.

It’s serious and affecting children in such a bad way. It seems to go that as soon as kids can hold them they are given their own electronic devices too.

I agree with you totally and it's about time we stopped being browbeaten into letting people neglect their children

I agree OP, I see this behaviour often too and I do reflect on my own phone useage around my DCs.

I get a bus to work in the morning and there is often a mum with a child and toddler on the bus, and the toddler always has an iPad and is watching kids tv. And yes I do judge, for one it’s annoying for everyone else to listen to, but also because why is that necessary? I always chatted to my kids on bus journeys.

Of course there’s a place for kids tv, CBeebies was a godsend when they were toddlers and I was trying to cook dinner or get some chores done but I think it’s sad now that it often seems to be the default to give a toddler a screen.

Phones are so addictive and I think those who are saying ‘but don’t judge, you don’t know what sort of day they have had ’ are being naive. It’s something we should all reflect on and be judging ourselves on too.

I agree with you. I see this a lot on buses.