To question school spending £20000 on event space in school car park…

[OrangeCrushing]

It’s an infants school, just set back from busy main road.

No gates.
Random cars regularly use car park to do 3 point turn.
Car park always full and then dubious parking.

Shed to one side (close to car park entrance) has been turned into an event space.

It’s not huge, maybe 10/15 children. But no outside space, and if door is open you wouldn’t want a child going outside into car park/near the main road without close supervision by an adult.

Think idea is to hire it out to generate more money for school.

I’ve been told that school can’t afford reading books/library books changed. So children get the same reading book 6 times or for two weeks in a row. Library is rarely used.
Money raised for event space has been raised by PTA, who are amazing and very well meaning.
However, I honestly don’t think we are going to see lots of new reading books, someone helping with library as a result.

It feels like the priorities are wrong?
I would have focused on securing the car park with gates first, ensuring reading resources are adequate - and then gradually putting additional funding towards the event space…

I don't quite understand the 'event space'.
However if this was either PTA I was treasurer for I would be wanting to see the financial case for this before I would sign the cheque.

@TeenToTwenties

The school can afford two non-teaching senior managers - and I’m aware of a third teacher who has a class, but is rarely in the classroom. Class is often taught by TA’s. They are all very ‘close’ and defensive of each other. It feels like the event space is funding their wages.

The event space will have the potential to raise revenues for the school, allowing them to buy books etc year on year.

Gates will only ever cost more money for maintenance.

It feels a bit like the old adage “Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him how to fish and you feed him for a lifetime”.

@OkayLetMeKnowHowItGoes

Only I’m 100% sure there will be no new reading books appearing…

I think they will try and afford a third non teaching ‘senior manager’…

PTA funds can’t be used for core activities (eg paying staff to work in the library). They could be used for resources (eg books). But school budgets are so tight, spending on something that will generate future income probably seemed like a better way idea. The PTA is a completely separate entity to the school, so it’s their choice how funds are spent. Are you an active member of the PTA? You could have more influence that way. Or become a governor and then you can scrutinise the budget!

What kind of events will be held there? My kids primary school used to rent out their hall for parties, community events, Karate lessons etc. They also had a community pool on site which the public could use outside of school hours. I think it's common for schools to rent out spaces and it can be a way to get funding for things the school needs. This doesn't sound like a space the kids will benefit from though. Although I'm having a hard time imagining it as more than a small shed. Will it have a toilet? Kitchen facilities. It's not going to be any more lucrative than renting out a classroom surely?

I don’t really understand your post and the event space but 2 things:

The PTA should have rules around what it does/n’t support. Things that should be covered by core school budget are excluded and it should be in the power of the PTA to agree/not.

I’m a school governor and you clearly know little about how school finances work.

@smokymountain

I was last year -I’ve taken a back step this year because of this craziness in the car park!
I think it’s partly funded by school, partly by PTA.

I think the head/PTA must work together though - to decide where money is needed. I can see how it wouldn’t directly fund a librarian - but could release funding elsewhere to ensure the library is - at least - used.

And I can’t see how the event space can be safely used until the car park is safe???

Did you go to the PTA meeting where the expenditure was discussed and signed off by a quorate vote from the parents?

Maybe suggest the next PTA fundraiser be for books

Meanwhile, suggest to the school they ask all parents to donate any books their child no longer wants - that should help quickly

If you have a community Facebook or Pay it Forward page - ask on there for donations

Look out for free books on Olio

@CheckoutChump

See it’s exactly that belittling language that infuriates me. ‘Clearly don’t understand’. So I should just shut up if I don’t feel something is right?

Presumably it’s an under cover area that can be used by students. So it might give them chance to host more events for children. This sounds sensible. I think to have so many non teaching SLT in a small school is unusual. It’s unlikely any funds from this space would be used to pay their wages though.

@jackstini

I ended up buying my own reading scheme books from eBay…

I would but it feels like I’m up against the ‘clearly don’t understand’ type in terms of governors/senior managers…

What infuriates me is some of the accusations you’ve made about how a school can use PTA funds.

You 100% should challenge the PTA. There are likely a whole set of rules in its incorporation that make it distinct from school and where authority sits for allocating spending.

Just maybe stop making posts saying they’ll use it for another non-classroom based teacher as it makes you sound stupid when there’s a legitimate question to be asked.

@converseandjeans

But they can’t get to the space safely?? No outdoor space so I think it’ll be boiling in the summer. It’s a glorified shed.

I think it would indirectly fund wages.
I think it’s used for ‘Slimming World’ type activities..

Why not? It'll just be hired as indoor space and people will be required to supervise their children on the way in and out as they would any public space.

As for the book issue the majority of schools keep the same book for a full week to build fluency so an extra week isn't a massive deal. It's only in the past few years that schools have had to start using a validated phonics scheme and associated books. That's meant that many schools have hundreds of perfectly useable books that they're not allowed to give to children and simply can't afford to replace them. It cost my school 8k to replace the books. I'm sure it school had bought into an online library they'd have parents complaining they want proper books not screens.

Depending on the size of the school two non teaching SLT isn't necessarily a huge amount

@OrangeCrushing You are confusing different aspects of a school budget. PTA spend and staffing are not connected.

Have you looked at the school benchmarking information to see how the school’s spending sits when compared with other similar schools?
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/benchmark-your-schools-financial-data

Does this compare favourably or not?

Is this an LA maintained school or academy?

If there is a deficit budget (15% of all schools have), as a maintained school, the LA school’s finance team will be working with the school on their submitted plan to correct this deficit.
If it is an academy, the trust will do the same and ultimately they are responsible to the Regional Director through ESFA.

Have you thought about volunteering a a school governor when an opportunity arises so that you are able to support the school in its strategic planning?

If you really have concerns, raise them through the schools complaints procedure available on all school’s websites. Follow all stages. A complaint must be evidenced. This will give a fair and objective process, with timescales for a response.

You might get more helpful replies if you explained the situation more clearly.
What is the "event space" and what do mean by 10/15 children?

@CheckoutChump

In your role as governor you’ve just referred to me as stupid. Do you think a lot of parents are stupid? Because it’s EXACTLY that type of Animal Farm mentality that is a huge problem in schools right now. Stupid parents who ‘clearly don’t understand’. Schools aren’t there to serve your ego, they are there to serve children.

@MarnieJADE

Thats a very useful post - thank you.

It's EXACTLY your type of parent mentality that is more of a problem in schools right now.

@OrangeCrushing If you have concerns about the use of the event space, rest assured that the school will have regular Health and Safety visits and will be expected to have a Risk Assessment in place. Something like these.

https://www.rotherham.gov.uk/downloads/download/160/risk-assessments---in-and-around-school

These are completed to assess risk and put in place actions to minimise. The first stage of a school complaints policy is to meet and talk with leaders ( Chair of Gov, if it is about the headteacher), you could ask to see the Risk Assessment at this meeting. The safeguarding governor will also have oversight of this RA.

Is that a typo in the title, or is this glorified shed costing TWENTY THOUSAND POUNDS? Swanky log cabin prefabs come in about £8k, as far as I can see. How much more can a loo, plumbing and electricity add to the cost?

What do they plan to charge for the hire? Our village hall's £30 for a whole evening. It's hard to imagine Weight Watchers and Tai Chi classes would be able to pay more than that ... I suppose someone has done the maths, but it looks like a vey long haul to break even on this, let alone make a profit for the school.

Confusing!

I referred to you as stupid as an anonymous user of an online forum - which given some of your accusations was warranted.

It was not in my role as a school governor since that work does not happen on MN.

I am also a parent (another school) and there is an issue with parents who don’t seek to understand (which is absolutely valid and right) vs make accusations (which is what you did).