To question school spending £20000 on event space in school car park…

[OrangeCrushing]

It’s an infants school, just set back from busy main road.

No gates.
Random cars regularly use car park to do 3 point turn.
Car park always full and then dubious parking.

Shed to one side (close to car park entrance) has been turned into an event space.

It’s not huge, maybe 10/15 children. But no outside space, and if door is open you wouldn’t want a child going outside into car park/near the main road without close supervision by an adult.

Think idea is to hire it out to generate more money for school.

I’ve been told that school can’t afford reading books/library books changed. So children get the same reading book 6 times or for two weeks in a row. Library is rarely used.
Money raised for event space has been raised by PTA, who are amazing and very well meaning.
However, I honestly don’t think we are going to see lots of new reading books, someone helping with library as a result.

It feels like the priorities are wrong?
I would have focused on securing the car park with gates first, ensuring reading resources are adequate - and then gradually putting additional funding towards the event space…

So they’ve used what seems to be valuable funds for a shed rather than actually on yhe needed books? And classes are straight by tas while qualified teachers swan about the school ‘managing’ presumably on 60k plus….. whoever manages the finances needs a shake!

But you don’t understand, that’s why you’re having to question it. It’s ok not to understand some things - no one understands everything. It’s important to ask questions and listen when you don’t understand.

Schools have different budgets for different things. They can’t just dip into one budget for something else, so your points about teacher’s salaries is the part that has created confusion.

@MarnieJADE’s post also explained a lot of the points that you don’t understand.

@OrangeCrushing I will also add, that in my school our outdoor classroom ( your events space) was lottery funded. This included money for an independent specialist to work part time from it.

This was shown in our school budget and recorded in the publically available governors minutes.

I am trying to show you, that schools are very accountable. More so an LA maintained school, than some academies but nevertheless very publically accountable.
And if there are concerns, there are formal ways to address this.

Schools are auditied regularly too be an external auditor, though there is a whistleblowing procedure for use of tax payers money, via the LA.
Again MUST be evidenced, not local gossip.

Could you set up a group who welcomes book donations to the school and organise some sort of set in the school library for reading? Some of these parent driven initiatives work very well.

If it’s any comfort, the PTA where I used to work paid for a radio station desk for the children to use. Total and utter waste of money. Took up space. Was used all of four times. (The head at the time had odd ideas).
It doesn’t take much money to set up a good school library. But it does need a dedicated member of staff to run it well - either as a voluntary or paid add on.

I’m sorry I don’t understand. Is it an outdoor classroom structure that children will use as well as outside groups?
What do the school say about keeping books for weeks? I have a few parents who would probably say their child doesn’t get a new book for a few weeks at a time, what actually happens is they don’t bring their child’s book in at all or on the right day so I don’t see it to change it!

@OrangeCrushing
You have questions that need to be put to the Head/Governors/PTA. What do you hope to gain from sniping from the sidelines?

If you think something isn't right or are not happy / have questions about the way something is being done then speak to the head or govenors.

I don’t know why you (and a few others) are saying you don’t understand, seems pretty clear to me. The OP thinks the event space was a poor financial decision on the part of the PTA and that they will not see a good return on the investment. I can understand her concern as it does sound an odd little space and I would have thought there would be limited demand for it, but it would obviously depend on the OP’s local area and what other spaces it would be competing with.

Hopefully the PTA did some thorough market research and financial planning before signing off on this project, but who knows.

Where I work is small with very little non-teaching SLT and it is very difficult as a class teacher. I'd much rather I was supported by senior staff who weren't teaching their own class full time too. It has huge implications for the leadership and behaviour management of a school. It's difficult to appreciate from the outside how much schools are dealing with, mainly in terms of safeguarding, that takes up so many hours. If that is left to class teachers to sort in a couple of hours at the start and end of the day and over lunch it is incredibly difficult. As has been pointed out though, that is completely separate to PTA funding anyway.

Op, firstly I'm not sure what your concerns are. The PTA has purchased an event space or garden room.

Perhaps it is needed as a quiet space for Sen children to be in a calmer setting. Perhaps it will be used for reading practice, or for any other activity when a class needs to split. I can think of lots of reasons why a school would benefit from an extra space.

If it is also a long term revenue earning asset, and space for the local yoga group, WI etc, then that's a bonus. At £20,000 they have obviously saved up for it for a specific purpose. Have you asked what their plan is, rather than just assuming they want to raise money for an extra manager.

If the school is short of funds, I think it much more likely revenues will go towards teachers pensions.

Reading books are easy to come by. Send out a plea on Facebook for childrens books, and you will be inundated with books children have grown out of. All our books went to the primary school library.

Governor minutes should be available either on school website or via the office. I am sure this space would have been discussed. Also budgets and staffing.

There is a push for all schools to maximise their income. Funding is dire

It was actually £22000 contribution from PTA. Not sure how much from school.

This ethos that ‘parents know so little’ and should never question really makes my blood boil.

And yes - schools DO spend money inappropriately. Look at the school in the Wirral and what they did with LA funding.
Thank you @MarnieJADE you posts have been v helpful. You haven’t gone down the ‘stupid parent’ route and given useful advice on how to resolve. .
And no - I’m not clear at all about how it can be used as an ‘event space’. The car park safety issue is really problematic I think.

If the school had paid towards this it would come out of their capital budget not their revenue budget which pays for staffing (usually between 70 - 80% of budget) books etc

You don’t get to make the decisions - if you want a say then attend PTA meetings and contact the governors of the school. It is really thankless volunteering on committees etc and people are held accountable for funds spent. You waging a personal campaign once the decision has been taken would really frustrate me!

There is a massive difference between asking questions and challenging appropriately and being a malicious judgmental gossip however. You are coming across as the latter on this thread, having jumped to wrong conclusions about what PTA money can be used for and refusing to accept that your prejudices about the non teaching senior staff roles are just unfounded.

If you were posting with more of an open mind, I doubt you’d have people responding calling you stupid.

@kiwiane

I am a volunteer myself. We have minimal funds, but the priority would be that the children have what they need to take part, and take part safely before putting the funds that we do have towards - say a better, more showy venue.

If we did get those priorities wrong, I would want a parent to voice that opinion - even as a volunteer.
Because ultimately it’s about the welfare of the children, and not the dent I’d take to my volunteering ego.

If it’s being used for things like Slimming World presumably they will take place in the evening when the car park isn’t as full and the people attending will be adults who I assume can navigate a car park. If the school can hire it out then they will be able to generate income from the space.

Is it a proper structure -where I live closeness to traffic would be a big issue for planning -also access, and parking for users. Nearby public transport for users also. Speak to plannin.

Books from home are fine for 'reading for pleasure' books but schools need to follow phonics schemes now from a short list of approved providers and many have specific books e.g. Little Wandle only uses Collins Big Cat.

I think you’re right to be concerned about the car park and lack of gates if children could easily run into cars. Ignore the condescending wankers on this thread. You’ve every right to ask the school what the plans are, how it benefits the education of the children in the school and how they expect to keep children safe.

YANBU, I’d be livid. I was involved in PTA for years, and we’d never have funded something like that. The space sounds tiny and crap too. Massive waste of money.

@OrangeCrushing - thinking about the PTA ( as their funds raised do not ‘belong’ to the school) and would only show as a donation to the school in the school budget. ( my advice above about benchmarking is linked to school budget and staffing).

Are they a formal PTA, which is registered charity? If so they will also be subject to audit.
They should also have minutes of their decision making. If these show that the committee is in favour of the donation to the school for this purpose then there wouldn't be much you can do, other than join so that you get to be part of the process next time.

https://www.pta.co.uk/running-a-pta/managing-a-pta/pta-committee-roles-and-responsibilities/

@Slimbear

Yes I’m just reading planning, yes there were a number of objections…thanks for that! But permission was granted.

Orange, have a look at the governing board minutes for the last 6 - 12 months. If they aren't published on the website (they don't have to be) the clerk to governors should make them available within a reasonable timescale. It might give you an insight into why this spending was approved. Also into the non-teaching senior leaders. I worked with schools up until last year, and in the current financial situation it's hard to imagine how any small school could afford that.

Even though the PTA has paid for this, the ordering and purchase would still have to be made within the guidance set out in the school's finance policy. That's likely to include using only approved contractors and getting three quotes. I'd expect that governors would have also been consulted with a rational for the spend, and probably that they had to approve which contract to go with. You need to look at their finance policy to check that, but I suggest not spending too much time digging. The board minutes might be enlightening on their own.