PIP assessments not fit for purpose

[notfitforpurpose]

The ONS figures show that 70% of the DWP decisions at tribunal/appeal stages were overturned in favour of the claimant.

This is particularly ominous as this will be the assessment which will be used to decide if a claimant has lcwra in future.

AIBU to think that the whole system is unfit for purpose?

Pip isn't an out of work benefit so stop trying to equate it with people being work shy or lying?
Many people use their pip to enable them to work. Those are the ones these cuts will affect the most.
I don't know whether other people lie about their illnesses? That's for the DWP to decide. But to suddenly shift the goal posts and render a load of people financially unable to manage their disability is a fucking disgrace.
Thanks labour. Care about the sick and poor my arse.

80% percent of Pip claimants do not work.

A high percentage of pip claimants (80%) do not work.

Well you're very late to the party if you're only cottoning on to this now, OP.

People have been saying this since it came in as a replacement for DLA!😬

A lot of State Pensioners also receive PIP. They do not work, but are not of working age.

Of people who are working age, a lot do work.

Also, to note the relevant figure (because of devolution and changes to how some benefits are administered) is 3.5 million for England and Wales. 20% of those claimants work. There will also be a decent number of those who are pensioners.

The poster you quoted was talking about the UK. And PIP has got nothing to do with work.

You paying, are you a high income earner? Do tell.

The coalition claimed the change from DLA to PIP would save £5 billion. It only saved £100 million over the projected time period.

DLA was brought in under John Major's government to give disabled people the right to spend more y needed for their care where they wanted. And also to reduce costs to NHS and local authority social care services.

Realistically, to lower the need for PIP now you would need to reinvest in NHS and council services. Which is likely substantially more expensive at this point.

It's ridiculous how many claims are overturned at appeal - surely it would save money to have correct judgements at first assessment.

I think it's reasonable to have a look at the system - should there be more than 2 levels of award for example, rather than just standard and higher rate.

But surely the best thing would be to investigate the underlying cause of the necessity of claiming, and see if that can be addressed.

Long waiting lists for joint replacements for example. Long waits for referrals to specialists for just about anything - people are probably claiming when prompt and effective treatment and support would mean they might not be struggling to the point of needing pip.

Mental health treatment and support is rubbish. I know of young people who have been told they qualify to see someone at camhs (rather than being referred to self help etc) still waiting 2 years on, simply being sent questionnaires to complete every couple of months.

But also why is mental health so bad in the UK? How can this be addressed?

I'm not late to the party. I'm well aware that PIP is a bloody disgrace. I'm concerned that they are now going to be using PIP criteria to assess whether a UC claimant has LCWRA, when its been clear for years that the whole PIP system is broken.
The appeal statistics don't lie, unlike most PIP assessors, going by some of the experiences by other Pps and their loved ones.

Yes it's a massive worry. If someone loses their PIP they will lose their LCWRA as well, plus potentially carers benefits. many households could be over 1k a month down which would be a devastating loss to any household.

The very first one I had the assessment for for a completely different person ! They’d obviously got their paperwork mixed up and everything from age to height and conditions were wrong

Yes, it's absolutely ridiculous, isn't it?

So much money wasted because the system is so crap and not helping people at early stages making their conditions more serious and making them less able to get better and return to their normal lives, where that's possible.

🌷

You think that's bad? LAs lose nearly 100% of the cases taken to SENDIST...

Not really.

The vast majority of disabled adults (16 million/23%) in the UK don't claim PIP.

I had an assessment last year that was conducted via video.

The lady was genuinely rude and mocked my difficulties with washing myself. When I got all of the paperwork through she's lied about what I've said, and made some inferences that simply aren't true.

I went from higher rate on both elements (9+yrs), to low rate for one only.

If I don't win at tribunal I will eat my hat.

The system is broken, and how much extra money is spent doing mandatory reconsiderations (with no paperwork - what's the point?), sending out every piece of info held to claimants, then sorting out the tribunal?

I've been told it'll be more than a year to wait, and a gentleman from a free advice service is having to go through my paperwork and help me at court.

ONE telephone call to each of my Consultants would have cleared this up. It's a terrible system, and how are UC claimants going to manage if they have to wait over a year to have their info properly considered?

I despair of this government, and I'm a lapsed Labour member.

I have had a difficult time with them. First time awarded first time around 2014 when it first came in. They then tried to take it off me 2 yrs later with a paper assessment which we sent for a paper appeal and got it back again.

Then had to sent it to appeal again 3 yrs later but had that overturned before the appeal and then got a 6 yr award which is nearly up again so awaiting another review.

I did have some 4 point scores given by the appeals where DWP had given me 2 points.

I can see more appeals happening with the new points system if it comes in, but the problem is some may have wrongly been given 2 in the past by DWP where appeals might have given them higher scores, but I can see DWP using those previous assessments to argue for not giving higher scores at review.

I’ve got my first ever PIP assessment next week via the phone. I’m really nervous now reading these stories and worried they will lie or twist what I say

You need to ask for it to be recorded. I went from zero points to high rate on both on Mr the only difference was I asked the 2nd call to be recorded so they couldn't lie. I had multiple letters from multiple consultants stating things I couldn't do and why, with proper medical evidence as to why but the original pip assessors whom I'm assuming isn't a cardiologist or a neurologist thought she knew better. Awful system they need to believe what consultants are telling them,

Sorry. That 16 million figure includes disabled children and people over pension age.

10.21 million working age adults are disabled. So, still true to say that the vast majority don't claim PIP.

Similar for SEND tribunals though - I think something like 95% of tribunal cases go in favour of the parents/carers.

cant imagine getting away with being wrong at work 95% of the time in many other careers!

I have been awarded PIP for an indefinite period, as I was DLA before that, as I have a disability which is not going to improve, life-long total blindness. However, I'm worried about having to have another assessment when the new rules come in, not because I'm necessarily worried about my PIP being reduced, but because the last assessment I had, when transferring from DLA to PIP was so frustrating. The assessor was purely ticking boxes on a piece of paper, not remotely interested in me as an individual. At one point she asked me if I could drive and then asked me why I didn't drive. I know they have to follow guidelines during an assessment, but a moment's consideration of my actual disability, which we had already discussed, would have told her why I couldn't drive.

As you have been told…if you’re receiving PIP at pension age you will still get it after….no you won’t work.

Your figures are therefore meaningless. Do better:

Fact is that PIP is NOT an out of work benefit. I am sick of stupid people who can’t process that.

True, but 70% of claims rejected do not end up with a tribunal win.

When I last looked, only half of rejected claims ended up being taken to Mandatory Reconsiideration. About half of rejected MRs ended up being taken to tribunal. That means only about 20% of initially rejected claims are overturned at tribunal.

I thought 70% of PIP appeals are won is that not right?

It's ridiculous that so many cases are going to tribunal anyway. How much money has the government spaffed up the wall on denying genuine claims?

Too much already, and if they go ahead with their daft proposals, it will only increase by legion. Has no one any foresight in the Government to see that this is not the way to decrease the welfare bill? It will not go well for them, if they manage to push this through.