To ask how to teach boys how to respect women?

[cadburyegg]

There are lots of messages in the media atm and for good reason.

Educate your sons.
Teach boys to respect women. To accept rejection. To value women’s opinions.
Lift boys up in healthy ways.
Help your boys do better.

i 100% agree with this. I have 2 boys and I am just not sure how I can do my part. How do we change the narrative? What do I tell them? How do I tell them? I guess I’m looking for practical, real life advice.

I have a girl myself but I teach a lot of teenage boys in mixed classes in a stereotypically male subject.

I look for examples of females giving talks, fronting video clips, in positions of authority, writing articles. I invite female speakers. Basically if I can have a woman say it, do it or be it, I do. I prioritise talking to the girls at open evenings etc. The boys will take the subject anyway.

As a result (hopefully) I have a better balance in the subject now.

I am sorry to say though that the subject at university is even more male dominated than when I studied in the 1990s (in the UK at least), which I find disappointing.

As an aside, a couple of years ago I visited Bomber Command in Lincoln and realised the pilots flying those incredibly dangerous missions were the same age as my year 13s. I was really shocked by that. It brought home to me what is, and was, expected of young men in conflict situations.

Make Sure you watch films, tv programmes with strong female characters. Such as Protection, or Motherland. Read books with both female and male leads. Never criticise your son for choosing what you class to be female toys/clothes/activities. I have noticed this for example a young boy picked up a pink toy. His mother told him to put it back and chose another one as his first choice was ‘a girl toy.’ That comment will now instil in that boy that he is better than what ‘a girl’ is.
Stop using misogynistic language such as Karen or bitch.
STOP criticising women for being no worse than men.
Never allow your children to form the narrative that males don’t have to do female tasks because they are beneath them. Make sure they cook, clean and see men looking after children.
Don't make it the mothers role to be the caring one, or the one who does all the cleaning.

Model being kind. That's what my dad did. I also read somewhere that every child needs to believe they are good at one thing at least. I think that's true. Be careful what they are exposed to.

Do you think that’s positive for his self image & self confidence?

sounds like you’re passive-aggressively undermining your own son.

why are you feeding him messages via your interactions with your daughter???

this is a really damaging approach IMHO.

surely you want your son to bring the type of stable self esteem to his relationships with women that reduce negative behaviour?

You don’t. Their dad does.

I don't really do it consciously, he gets plenty of positive reinforcement thanks. What he doesn't have is a decent male role model in the house and my male relatives are ok but not around much. Would you prefer I tell him that he can be a lazy slob and still expect to have a successful relationship? And in ten years have some girl posting in here in despair about how to get him to change?

Oh that's alright then ... Cos everyone has one of those who is suitable and present 🙄

Who are the gym brothers?

Agree with this … and we have come to a critical point with VAWG (and male on male violence before anyone jumps on me) that we need to go nuclear on the situation. So men and boys in the public eye should be more vocal in condemning the bad behaviour to counteract twats like the Tate brothers, be more proud to model and celebrate the right thing so our boys can see it in action. Those already doing it then have affirmation that they are one of the good ones.

in fairness (mum to a daughter) we know lots of good young men and I make a point in praising them often. Hopefully messages like this help to reinforce that they aren’t the problem

I think women giving up work and taking on traditional roles has a bigger effect than we think.

i was listening to a radio phone in on this and a woman was saying her 15 year old boy had “suddenly” developed all the ideas about women staying in the kitchen and essentially being a male support system, with everything being paid for with the man’s money.

she swore it was nothing she did. Then went on to say she had never worked, had no financial independence, and had spent the child’s entire life doing all the domestic drudgery. So when it came to divorce, the boy was saying things like you just want dads money, you need to get in the kitchen where you belong etc etc.

how she was surprised I don’t know, as she’s effectively modelled those ideas his whole life. He hasn’t seen women working and being independent, only being “provided for” in return for domestic work.

boys need to see women and girls as equals. Independent. Not reliant on men, as that then gives men the power over women.

This makes no sense. Most women can’t give up work and take on traditional roles. It means there’s more pressure on men to share equally in the housework…

I was struck by another parents saying her daughter (beautifully behaved) was always made to sit next to the boys with challenging behaviour and when the teacher was challenged about it they said it was because she was a good influence. That sounds superficially fine but really is teaching all the child that women have a responsibility around modifying male behaviour rather than men behaving better

also keep your boys away from computer games that glorify toxic, violent behaviour until their brains mature.

and talk to them

Boys learn from how men treat women. There is only so much women can do to influence how men/future men treat them.

Encourage them to recognise the poor behaviour of their peers and to call them out on it.

Women have been speaking out for years, toxic men only listen to other men. It's a men's problem, and we need to turn this on its head.

yet It’s always women that are sahm or go PT.

on here again and again we see “my salary doesn’t cover childcare”. We see women divorcing who have no ability to support themselves because they gave up work when they had children.

the gender pay stats are real. In our (massive) organisation figure show it’s almost exclusively women PT or choosing not to be promoted.

there are still a lot of sahm. They’re not rare.

@YourLuckyPearlGoose

I agree but in my case I saw what I’d didn’t want to be as a husband and father rather than copying I went the other way so it’s possible.

Maybe if there is no male role model around then explaining what women may find desirable or attractive in a man could work As an antidote to Mr Tates ideology?

I am not trying to minimise but the recent competency being sexy thread on here is a good example. I discussed that thread with other men and will be discussing it with my own boys.

The realisation that by being a grown ass competent man is highly attractive is an eye opener for some men as sad as that sounds. It taps into the what’s in it for us narrative as to why getting on board is good for everyone.

Boys and girls encourage them to talk about feelings I share mine and healthy boundaries. Give them an outlet for their emmotions

Really important thread OP
Well done starting.
Consent, I actually have a bit of a bee in my bonnet about consent, I think it's too weak with regard sex. Equal and enthusiastic participation is what I say.
Also, start little. I remember when my kids were in reception the girls would climb on the climbing frames and the boys would laugh if they could see their pants. The girls soon learnt to wear PE shorts under their dresses. This was all learnt behaviour and completely minimised by both the school and the parents. And although this is completely innocent little kid playing, it needs zero tolerance.
Older boys/young adults, tell them to be brave enough to call out their friends behaviour. Be aware of their own presence as well. If walking alone down a street behind a single woman, cross over the road etc.
I saw a great meme a while ago.
A few young lads chatting about how one of the fancied a girl but she wasn't interested and told him to leave her alone. One of them asked the man 'well, you know what you've got to do now don't you?'
Man replied 'yes, I'll message her on Instagram'.
Friend replied 'no, you're going to leave her alone'.
I think Sadik Khan 'say mate, to a mate' campaign was really good.

As a stay at home parent myself, I don’t agree that it necessarily makes for a bad example.

My children have seen me study hard for a degree. My husband still takes his fair share of the household chores, cooking etc.

We don’t have to all make the same choices to be a good influence on our children. Lots of relationships have financial disparities between partners, it’s about how you model things like that to your children. In our family, all money is ‘ours’ not just the person who earns it. All chores are ours, not just mine, ok, I do more of them but I also have other responsibilities and my children are aware of that and therefore everyone chips in.

I don't actually agree that being a stay at home mum equals teaching your sons not to respect you. Surely the lack of respect comes from the boys not seeing the dads value the role and society running it down.

My mother in law was a sahm and her husband really valued and respected her contribution and saw it as equal. That was quite a common stance. I'm not personally a sahm but I m a bit perturbed by the idea that doing the cleaning, cooking, household stuff, caring is not worthy of respect and the only respectful thing is earning money.

I think teaching critical thinking skills is also really important, to help them think through some of the ‘manosphere’ stuff they will inevitably be exposed to. I had a conversation with my 13yr old son about his primary years recently. He spoke about how obvious it was that the teachers preferred and favoured the girls. Many teachers I know will privately admit that, and having worked in schools, I’m not sure I blame them. Even in DS’ school, which is in a ‘good’ area, the impact of some boys behaviour on the teachers and other students is hard to deny. Of the disruptive children in the class, most are boys. When the classroom has needed to be evacuated due to a student becoming violent, you can almost bet the violent student will be male. The teachers don’t generally fear the female students in the same way they do the large violent boys, who can and have caused injuries to teachers and peers.

In the conversation with DS, it was really helpful to talk through the issues and help him reason through the fact he was blaming the girls for being favoured, instead of blaming the fact that the poor behaviour of those boys underpins any teacher preferences he may observe…. Plus, perhaps be angry at the factors that are contributing to the fact that his education is also being disrupted by a handful of violent and disruptive boys. Regardless, it’s actually not the fault of the girls that teachers may prefer them. I’d rather deal with mediating some of the conflict between the girls than risk my physical safety when one of the violent boys loses his shit and attempts to pin teachers against the wall.

This is absolutely spot on! What you said about equal and enthusiastic participation in particular - what if a woman says yes but looks terrified. We should teach boys that consent is the minimum, not the absolute.

My daughter’s secondary school told the girls to wear cycling shorts under their kilts! They couldn’t understand why as parents we had an issue with it being the girls responsibility to add an additional layer of clothing to be considered adequately covered up!

I'm a fully grown adult middle aged women. I had to go on a speed awareness course a while ago and was one of the last to arrive. I walked to take a seat at a table with four other women and was told by the instructors (male) to sit at a table with four men instead. Annoyed, but I obediently took my seat. At the end of the course (only after I got my pass did I dare complain) I complained about having to sit with the man. I was basically told I was sat their to keep them in line. I did challenge this and say 'so it's the women's job to keep the men in line? Not your job?' They had no reply to this.

How do we teach our kids anything? By modelling. It's served me very well as a parent.
Unfortunately generational sexism is embedded in so many families. I know several families just like Jamie's in Adolescence. Dad works manual job, sons are expected to play football, girls do dance. Mum works part time because she does all the household tasks and parenting. Let their kids stay up half the night online during the week. Very traditional roles, and the drama showed us just how damaging that household dynamic can be if the kids don't fit the mould, felt very close to home for me as my ds has friends in families like this.
All lovely hard working people but entrenched in the patriarchy and pretty slack on the parenting front. I was talking about the show to a colleague, we both have teen sons, and she had never even heard of an incel, she is one the families I mentioned. I don't think she realises the lessons she is teaching her sons about women.

I wonder about this too. My teen Ds has a lot of the 'alpha male' qualities, good looking, popular, athletic and a strong personality. I feel he is at risk of becoming entitled. Dh is the breadwinner and I work PT so am home a lot, therefore I can't model an equal household. I don't 'mother' him and fuss over him much, I don't serve him. I pull him up on things and don't take any crap from DH either. That's the best I can do. Also if we see something I perceive as sexist I discuss it with him and ask his views. Dh is a good role model, generally respectful and works in a very balanced work place and I think this helps.

I also try to make sure my DD knows she can stand up for herself and I encourage male friends too. The 'no boys allowed' attitude among girls can be very damaging in creating unnecessary divisions at a young age and can push boys into a male herd mentality.