To ask how to teach boys how to respect women?

[cadburyegg]

There are lots of messages in the media atm and for good reason.

Educate your sons.
Teach boys to respect women. To accept rejection. To value women’s opinions.
Lift boys up in healthy ways.
Help your boys do better.

i 100% agree with this. I have 2 boys and I am just not sure how I can do my part. How do we change the narrative? What do I tell them? How do I tell them? I guess I’m looking for practical, real life advice.

I jump on any refreshments to Karen, bitch, or similar language. I tell my DD loudly in her brother's hearing that no woman now has to rely on a man so men have to be up to scratch if they want to keep a girlfriend or wife. I'm a SP and dad us hopeless so it's the best I can do.

You despairing doesn’t help your boys grow into respectful men. Don’t despair get tough with them. I work with teens and challenge any hint of misogynistic behaviour. As a society, with all the twats on the internet we have to step up big time. Otherwise we are seriously going back to a Middle Ages attitude towards women.

In that case, that sure they see you calling out men disrespecting you or discuss horrible behaviour you see in the tv.

For example, if one of their teachers on parents evening is being rude/mansplaining/disrespectful to you, call it out calmly. ‘There is no need to speak to me in that manner’ etc etc.

An uncle is good. There will be other men in his life -especially if you join some sort of club around his interests.
But also there are grear celebrities and public figures who you can talk about and hopefully get him interested in them over Andrew Tate.

The single biggest positive factor is a strong male role model ( dad) living in the house where they live.

A man who does 50% of the housework, treats their mum with respect and who parents alongside the mother.

Still no guarantee but all of my nephews have had this ( I don't have kids) and all of them are decent men. The oldest is now a father himself and is behaves exactly as his great dad did 30 years ago.

I saw a lovely instagram account the other day of these 2 gym guy brothers who really invest into tweens/teens, really being amazing role models and changing these kids’ lives. That’s exactly the example of masculinity our kids need more of. Are your boys into any sports or hobbies that could demonstrate positive masculinity?

I have 2 boys and work half the week (3.5 days, out 4 evenings a week) so during that time DH is home doing all the dinner/bed/housework etc. So hopefully that will go some way. But it’s really scary how easily we all can just slip down a toxic rabbit hole (see also conspiracy theorists and those who join cults!), and teens particularly vulnerable to it.

Sure, I'll try. Because it's a broad brush. The majority of boys/young men are polite, respectful and responsive to the authority of women and other men. Like everyone, I worry about the damage that SM influencers are doing to boys. But equally I am also worried that regular, respectful boys and young men - the majority, despite what some MN posters would have you believe - are being collectively judged to be a risk to women. This constant narrative - that you are a danger, a risk, etc. - is going to have an impact on boys behaviour and normal development.

Sorry if that's not the best clarification, but I hope this helps you to see the point I was trying to make!

But surely the ones who aren't a risk understand the issues and know that they aren't the problem?

I have three boys and am what I consider to be a “strong parent”. I set clear, firm boundaries and have consequences for breaking them. I have NEVER said wait until your father gets home (or similar) and I never failed to follow through on consequences. I didn’t allow them to speak to me disrespectfully (we have a laugh and a joke, I’m not inhuman). We talk about consent and I’ve been talked about women and girls wearing WTF they want. There’s no slut shaming in my house.

Ive got a bit of a thing about accountability and “holding your own power”. The narrative about men being unable to control their own behaviour around a scantily dressed drunk woman boils my piss. Ffs “they made me do it” is giving away all of your own power.

But statistically speaking men are a risk to women, if you parent so you're boys don't have a massive ego they will understand women's point of view and recognise women are annoyed at the structures of oppression and not individual men

We talk about consent, so not hugging and kissing the girls in his class (he’s in lower primary), not interrupting his sister all the time and remind him not to do that at school. The discussions will change as he gets older but that’s it for now. I’m a massive believer in modelling behaviours as well, we have a very equal set up at home in terms of childcare and housework, and my partner is respectful to me.

Only a small thing but after reading lots of mums on here with no xmas presents, birthday presents and Mother’s Day. I made a big thing of taking the boys to buy cards and gifts for mum and family members and installed the importance of caring about others.

They are 6&9 and can accurately pick out what mum and their cousins like in a shopping centre and they get pleasure from doing so and planning it.

My own dad still gets me or my sister to sort mum out which makes me loose a little bit of respect for him each time which is sad.

DH had a wonderful role model in his dad. My MIL and FIL treat each other with respect. DH and his brother had high standards of behaviour expected from them and parents acted in unison with regards to this. Both sons were expected to contribute to all aspects of house work, as did FIL.
MIL worked part-time.
I owe my PIL a lot 😄

Treat them like people, and encourage them to treat everyone else like people too.

Don’t criticise sectors of society- coffin dodgers, boomers, teens- and highlight the individuality of everyone. I was a bit shocked to find my boys couldn’t tell the older women at church apart. They were just ‘the old ladies’.

Encourage them into conversation with different people and draw out the personal details- what tv programmes they watch, food they eat.

It’s all too easy for boys not to think about other people in any meaningful way, or to simply ‘other’ them into categories. So boys like me and ‘girls/old people/teachers’.

We had a ‘girls are people too’ thing for a while 🤣

Respect generally isn't a default setting for many people, male or female. I think that's the starting point. I have respect for, and show respect to, both men and women, and so does my children's father. Additionally, for my son (now 23), I tried to give a woman's POV. For example I told him to not to walk behind a woman if there was nobody else around, because she doesn't know what's in his head. I think the fact that our children didn't have a smartphone until about 14 was a huge blessing (because of when they were teenagers rather than any virtue on our part). My daughter is 21 and has struggled with the effect of social media. She developed a serious health condition at 17, found support online but also some frankly dangerous "communities". She is pretty adamant that younger teenage girls shouldn't have smartphones, which surprised me when she said it. I agree though. I've been a teacher for nearly 30 years and the impact of social media on teenagers, especially the most vulnerable, is extreme. And the dynamic between boys and girls is the most damaging I've known it to be.

Absolutely.

If they're 14-15, yes, I'd agree, but not if they're 9 or 10. Boys generally don't understand the 'issues' at that age in a sophisticated way, but they do need rules/role models. Just my view of course!

^ See my reply upthread. However admirable, 9 or 10 year old boys cannot and do not understand 'structures of oppression'. But they will understand rules and good male role models.

(P.S. I'm going off line now, but thanks for the discussion)

Karate teacher, Scout leader, church youth leader etc. Surround them with positive male
role models as far as possible.

Books with female protagonists, and all kinds of different people represented.
Think about whether the movies you are watching pass the Bechdel test.
Think about the culture at his hobbies.
Encourage friendships with girls as well as boys.

My DS reads MN along with me and he finds all the LTB stuff really worrying. There is a strong sense on here the men are kind of the enemy, and often no sense that men can be worked with to improve family relations.

I think one thing we could do is to make sure that we do not treat men as though they are the enemy, but talk about them as though we do really want them to thrive and be part of the family.

I disagree with this as a Black woman young Black and racialised children have to learn about structures of oppression therefore young boys can and should learn in an age appropriate way about gender inequality

Not the man's behaviour? I'm no LTB-er, but I think criticising the behaviour should come before criticising the response.

And to add…understand that they do possess the strength to physically overpower a woman, even if they never intend to.

I’m a single parent to 2 young men and a young woman and I think these factors helped

1. all of them were raised the same. They were all expected to do chores and had the same expectations put on them. If my dd was allowed something then so were my ds and vice versa.
2. Their friendships with the opposite sex were encouraged and not assumed to be romantic by me. I think that young men with female friends are less likely to end up as incels etc
3. no sexism allowed in either direction. Individuals might be dickheads but no generalising like “All boys are fuck boys” “All girls are manipulative “ sort of thing
4. never posting about them on social media and not discussing their thoughts with other adults including their dad (divorced) They could confide in me and be confident that it didn’t go further.
5. Not having gender based expectations of them and certainly no teasing or humiliation when they don’t follow gender expectations. This also helps with maintaining friends of the opposite sex. For example dd had a birthday sleepover one year (year 5?) and her brother who is a couple of years older allowed the girls to put makeup on him. I thought that he was a great sport where as a more toxic parent might be asking him if he’s gay.
6. My kids picked friends who were very similar to them (I know, I’m very lucky with this one ) They had similar boundaries like curfews as my kids did and they came from homes where the parents also had high expectations
7. I think that I kept my kids safe without being controlling. I didn’t track their location on their phone (at their request) and they always answered my calls and texts in good time. They were encouraged to be independent at their pace and trusted to make decisions. They were allowed to make mistakes but told not to repeat them.
8. I don’t compare my kids with each other. They are individuals with their own strengths, weaknesses and goals. They are praised for effort as well as achievements and as their mum I will help them achieve their goals.