To think that the new PIP benefit proposal could lead to the same issues as Universal credit's new LCW policy...?

[Tiredofthegovtsuselessdecisions]

...which is to push some people to claim they are sicker than they really are just to keep their money?

I believe the government proposal is going to add to many people either exaggerating their symptoms to get 4 points in atleast one description for daily living or hope their illness gets worse enough to achieve the 4 points. Either way, it's unfair on ill and disabled people to have to think this way. They're ill enough as it is and deserve the support even if they get all 2 points in each.

It could increase the so-called fraud that people keep going on about because everyone wants to keep their money to be able to survive and people will do anything it takes to do this, including those who outrightly lie and scam the system.

This is exactly what happened when the govt stopped payments for universal credit LCW group where many were quite happy to stay in. Now everyone scrambles to prove that they are too ill to do any sort of work so they can be put in the LCWRA group and get the money, yet still be allowed to work! How does that make any sense? Now the govt spends more on more people being in the LCWRA group and either not working at all or still working (when they're supposed to have limited capability for 'work related activity'?!) than if they kept the smaller amount for people to stay on LCW and still willingly continue working more/more people working.

Aibu to think this is going to go the same way if they make these changes for pip?

Also aibu to think instead of the govt making it harder to get pip at all, they can keep this new points rule for the enhanced group instead, making it so that to get enhanced, you have to be severely affected in most or all areas.

(Note I'm disabled too).

Just worried that what the govt thinks this will do will be the opposite. Then they'll be right back where they were or worse.

What the government say the measures will achieve and what they think they will achieve are not the same thing. You don't have to worry "that what the govt thinks this will do will be the opposite" - they already know what the outcome will be, pretty much what you describe.

The important thing to understand is that they don't care. Starmer is no different to Johnson or Truss or Sunak - he's in power to feather his own nest. He doesn't care about disabled people or the public generally. A few thousand dead disabled people is meaningless to a top politician, just as a few thousand dead pensioners are.

Politicians only care about people who will help them make money for themselves.

I believe the government proposal is going to add to many people either exaggerating their symptoms to get 4 points in atleast one description for daily living or hope their illness gets worse enough to achieve the 4 points. Either way, it's unfair on ill and disabled people to have to think this way. They're ill enough as it is and deserve the support even if they get all 2 points in each.

I have no words. Do people honestly think like this?

If you’re honest, you’ll get it. I’ve got epilepsy and when I completed my form (and attended the interview) I focused my answers on the Daily Living component. I can’t even bath alone as DH has to supervise me in case I have a seizure. He has to remind me to take my medication. There’s loads of things. Despite that, I got about 4 points overall.

Anyway, I didn’t even think I qualified for mobility, and just wrote what I did on a daily basis and how it affected me. I got the full 12 points and we’ve got a motability car. As it turns out, it’s an absolute godsend for getting me to hospital appointments/picking up prescriptions…loads of things.

Basically, be honest. There’s no need to over egg the pudding lie If you qualify for it (and fill the form in correctly) then you’ll get it. Citizens Advice Bureau are so helpful when it comes to how to fill in the form and what to expect at the interview.

I agree.

I understand but then some people who're affected but can only get 2s on all can't even get standard rates anymore. For example, someone may get all 2s and have 14 points overall yet won't qualify but someone else can get 4 on one question and then rest are 2s and get 8 or 9 points overall and they'll get pip.

How is that fair on the first person? The govt hasn't thought of that or they did but don't care.

Probably because weird posters like you stalk usernames and she doesn't want the hassle of being attacked for previous posts on this thread.

Well yes because they're ill enough as it is, yet the govt doesn't think so if they can't qualify for even the basic financial help. Is it so difficult to see that some will think if they can't get any better, they may as well get worse so they can be 'ill enough' for the govt's new goalpost?

Since the 1980’s virtually every government has charged in with various cost cutting ideas to cut the benefits bill.

Not one has actually saved the taxpayer anything.🤷‍♀️

This one will die on the vine, the same as all the others. 🙄

❤️

Interesting thought process. Maybe someone will be along in a minute too clarify that they would want to deteriorate to enable them to keep their benefit, if they do change the criteria as reported.

I believe the government proposal is going to add to many people either exaggerating their symptoms to get 4 points in atleast one description for daily living or hope their illness gets worse enough to achieve the 4 points. Either way, it's unfair on ill and disabled people to have to think this way. They're ill enough as it is and deserve the support even if they get all 2 points in each.

But this would be the case for any threshold - there will be people on the 'wrong' side of it (or the right side depending on how you look at it) who, yes, would have a financial incentive to want to be on the other side. The only way to avoid it would be to either limit it to such severe cases that no one could exaggerate their symptoms to that extent, or to have absolutely no criteria at all and to give it to everyone who applied. Surely you're not in favour of either of these options?

My daughter scored 8 for one section and 2's for a few others. I believed she should have scored higher but left it as she was still awarded higher rate.
Next time I will push for the correct scores and go to tribunal if needed.
This is what will happen, DWP have been underscoring people and getting away with it, not any more.

There will definitely be more appeals, which will cost DWP even more money.

It certainly is a very twisted way of looking at things

I completely agree. The threat of losing the whole award, has put people off challenging a lower award. If a person is asking for one part of the PIP to be looked at, ie, the daily living part, for example, then why do they need to look at the mobility as well, if claimed for, if that is not the part being challenged? It is just to put people off from trying to take it further. This cost cutting exercise, has just been ill thought out, and will result in no money really being saved, as the appeals process is going to be colossal, and will cost £££.

Quite. I could not fathom wanting to be more ill, to fit any criteria for benefits!

I think when people are faced with losing up to 1k + a month potentially through loss of hundreds of pounds of PIP and then that leads to the loss of £414 of LCWRA then yes we are going to see people taking drastic measures to get money back. Agree there will be loads more appeals and loads more people trying to get PIP if they didn't before just to keep the LCWRA . People will not cope with that kind of loss of income that they have been reliant on for many years.. Many of these people will be very long term recipients who will have very little chance of finding employment even with intensive help.

Good for you. What you can't 'fathom' still exists though. Must be nice to not be able to see things from every possible angle or other people's view even if people like you think it's "twisted". It's still logical.

No but perhaps it shouldn't be the case for existing claimants? Or should be the case for enhanced rates more than the standard one. People who qualify only based on 2s should be considered ill enough to be supported, I believe. Those criterias aren't mild either.

Exactly! I agree. They'll have more appeals and wins for claimants instead of what people were resigned to get just to keep ticking.

If people exaggerate then they’ll be found out surely? For example, if somebody with MH issues said they are suicidal, that would be checked with the GP.