Army recruitment of unemployed youth

[MistressoftheDarkSide]

Here pigeons, have a cat.

According to the Express and Mail, Liz Kendall thinks that going into the forces would be a good idea for unemployed youngsters. Surprised this has apparently flown under the MN radar. I wonder where this is all going, she mused, with wide eyed faux naivety.

I know young care leavers don’t have any family support, hence why I don’t believe the armed forces is the place for them. It’s very isolating when you’re half way across the world, at 19 or 20, on Christmas Day and there’s a time difference but most parents don’t mind a phone call at daft o’clock. Who is a care leaver calling? No one. It just makes them feel worse, more isolated and impacts their mental health.

I don’t think it’s right to target vulnerable groups like care leavers. I don’t think it’s right to target anyone tbh. If people want to join the armed forces, they will. If they’re not, and too many are leaving then look at why, and do something about it.

I don't know, care leavers are very vulnerable out in the world too. In the army there's structure, a career, a home, friends, a purpose. It's better than drugs and prostitution.
It's certainly got to be worth giving care leavers the choice. Not advocating forcing anyone. But deciding they are "too vulnerable" seems a bit daft when there's no safe option like with your daughter who can call her parents for advice and practical and financial support if she's having problems in her accommodation or job.

I only know one female in the infantry and she loves it, no complaints about harassment. So can't really comment on that aspect. It would certainly worry me to have women on the frontline because of the risk of sexual abuse if they were captured by the other side.

The armed forces can be fantastic for many young men who would otherwise do nothing. An opportunity to learn real life skills and have a career.

Well who are they going to spend Christmas day with at home, and why is it better to have no family at Christmas in the UK when everyone else does, than be abroad with friends and miss out on one phone call?

Also how are they targeting the vulnerable exactly? Army recruitment are at most careers fairs, village fetes, they do school and university visits etc round here, this would reach all types of people. A few years ago they ran a lot of TV and radio adverts. I don't see them targeting or pressuring anyone - it's usually just information .

Some of you are talking like it's a choice between the infantry or going to uni and becoming a lawyer.

There's lots of roles in the military, some have better prospects than others. The benefits aren't what they were but still not bad. I know someone living in the singles accommodation and they are only paying £70 a month in rent.

What's the alternative? If it's minimum wage, struggling to afford the rent in even a room in a shared house and living on beans on toast, then I would argue that's a far worse situation. Especially if you are vulnerable.

Is Carillion Amey still doing the maintanance of forces accomodation

I believe it's now pinnacle.

Sadly, that’s true and I have firsthand experience of that.
There was a lass in the same cohort as me for basic training. She wasn’t the brightest spark - not just academically. She just struggled with absolutely every aspect of it, including the basic life skills. She’d never seen an iron let alone used one. She didn’t know you’re supposed to add detergent before turning on a washing machine.
Living in such close proximity, we all got to know her well and helped her out as much as we could so she didn’t feel embarrassed about not knowing basic stuff in front of the instructors. Then families day rolled around, where parents and other family members are invited to come and spend the day with us and get some insight into what we were doing. She wasn’t the only person who had no family coming, but she was the only one who seemed relieved that her family weren’t there.
Turns out she came from a family where her dad was abusive, her mum was mentally unwell and had 6 other children at home. She’d been pretty severely neglected her whole life - hence the lack of knowledge of how to do basic, every day tasks like use a washing machine.
After we all went our separate ways to different phase 2 establishments, most of us stayed in touch. Last I heard of her, she’d dropped out of phase 2 training, shacked up with some bloke and had a baby. The baby was then taken from them by social services and she dropped off the face of the earth 😔 No idea what happened to her since then.

I’ll agree with the last part 100%.

When I was in, I couldn’t have given a fuck about “Queen and country”. The political bullshit that leads you to a war zone doesn’t enter your head.
All I cared about in the moment was that I was watching my friends and colleagues die or suffer life-altering injuries (to be fair even the non-lifethreatening ones like my lovely burn scar between my norks from a rogue shell casing 🫠)…..and that pissed me off.
Rage. Pure unadulterated rage.
The patriotism is reserved for the politicians on telly who like to make the public feel better about servicemen dying.

I mean, tbf has there ever been a time when the armed forces weren't trying to hoover up working class youth without other options?

Yes and those are young ppl who want to be in the armed forces, who were committed to giving it their all, not young ppl who have their arms up their backs.

And for young women too.

Exactly. I had four great uncles, siblings, who were in the British army during WWI, only one of whom survived — they’d joined up years before because they were poor, in a place with few other options for WC boys. It’s not new. There are still words originating in Hindi in the local slang because so many were in regiments posted to Raj India in the late 19th c.

quite.

I'd consider what other options disillusioned, isolated and vulnerable young people - men especially - have at present.

I was talking to a retired detective.

After he left the Police he was involved in the Former Iraq War Crimes Inquiry

His comment was that the Army created a lot of problems by recruiting poorly educated young men who were desperate to get away from home who then bonded in an unhealthy way that resulted in them acting very badly.

Putting disadvantaged young men into the Army etc will simply perpetuate these problems

Hayfever ,?
That surprises me my son wouldnt pass the medical as he has diabetes and is insulin dependent but i can understand that.

It is essential that new entrants to the Armed Forces are medically fit to meet the various challenges of Service life and the roles in which they will be expected to deploy. Candidates with mild or moderate allergies are currently able to join the Armed Forces providing they meet certain criteria.22 Oct 2024

https://questions-statements.parliament.uk
Armed Forces: Allergies - Written questions, answers and statements

Childhood hay-fever is no longer a barrier.

I come from a country where military service of 1 year was a fact for men of my age. It was an amazing equalizer and they made friends for life. They all learnt skills & standards that serve them for life.

If you’re amazing at some sports also great. BIL was the on world parachute champion team. Can’t imagine the cost of 2k jumps a year privately.

It’s expensive to run a massive bureaucracy like an army though. I’d argue better than unemployment for mental health than gaming and staying at your parents for decades. Obviously not a great job in war time!

They don't only target the underprivileged- it's just the rest go to uni, and do OTC and then apply for Sandhurst, and those candidates will have more options.

I recently did mock interviews at a local school, and I was a bit surprised at how many were considering the army. There seems to be a strong CCF there. Mind you, I did suggest to one that having a backup plan is always a good idea, because I thought if she does only get her predicted 3s and 4s, she won't be going to 6th form as she wants - and she seemed quite happy that there would always be a place for her in the army if she didn't do well enough.

In a previous job, I had German colleagues who had done Zivildienst as a hospital porter, and one who had done Militärdienst in the Luftwaffe - during 1989. It was certainly interesting to hear him talking about the Berlin Wall coming down, because they were on high alert and facing the prospect of civil war, because to start with, they didn't know how it would turn out. Germany ended national service mostly because of the cost of it, I think.

"What would the alternative be?"

That is exactly my issue though - are people enlisting because they genuinely want to enlist or are they enlisting because they don't feel they have any other viable choices so it's the lesser evil. I understand many soldiers won't see live action, but many do. Mental health issues is a huge concern. To me (its an extreme analogy) its similar to sex work and consent. If someone has gone into sex work because they are homeless/ have no support network/ are in poverty/ have experienced trauma would we really call that full consent and empowered sex work or is someone doing that as the only way they can see to survive in a shit situation? To me it's only surface level consent and empowerment and I would still see that as exploitation. For me, the army targeting vulnerable young people who are at risk of or who have experienced these things is onto that vein. And I wouldn't see it as any other job given that there is real risk of harm or loss of life attached.

@APATEKPHILLIPEWATCH "and actually speaking as someone who experienced childhood trauma, it doesn’t help having a mundane calm life. Sometimes a bit of conflict is what’s needed to deal with trauma."

Not to minimise your experiences at all (especially as everyone processes differently) but as someone who also has experienced childhood trauma and now works with trauma survivors, I actually really disagree with you that conflict is helpful in dealing with trauma. Often people who have experienced trauma end up seeking out adrenaline fuelled situations and many go into careers that expose them to more trauma like emergency services for example. It took me a long time and periods of complete burnout to recognise that I've done the same and if I'm not very careful with my awareness of what draws me to my job and how I manage that effectively - I am at more risk of compounding my trauma through exposure to further trauma over the years. This is more heightened for those of us who have prior experience of trauma than those who have secure upbringings and who haven't experienced the same trauma. The issue with the mundane calm life you talk about (no judgement I totally recognise this in myself too!) is a natural dispensation for adrenaline seeking because that's what our systems are used to. But this can easily compromise our resilience and wellbeing unless we have robust support networks in place. Which do not exist in the army at present which is why the suicide rate is very high.

There are many other options that our government could be resourcing to deal with that though. The army isn't the solution! Robust community and statutory services are the solution we should be promoting. It's the chronic and intentional underfunding of those services that is creating the issue of disillusioned, isolated and vulnerable young men in the first place!

Everyone has to do deployments it is part of all contracts ( unless you have personal extreme welfare reasons ).
These are now more often 3 months but were and can be 6 months.

A deployment does not necessarily mean front line but does field work. You go wherever you are sent

I get what you are saying…..and you’re partially right.
But as someone who has seen active service, I can tell you categorically that you go where they need you.
My job was a combat role, not infantry, but in a role that directly supports them.
During my first deployment, I did the job I was trained for a total of one time.
Instead, I spent the vast majority of my 6ish months being attached to an infantry battalion, and was used as a female searcher. Afghan women will not allow men near them, let alone to conduct searches of them or their children….so female soldiers were a precious commodity for that purpose. So I’d go out on foot patrols with the guys just in case they needed me to make sure there wasn’t an IED strapped to the chest of a terrified woman or her kid.
I also spent a lot of time working with the medical units for the same reason - a lot of the local women would rather be treated by a woman with basic medical knowledge than a male doctor where possible. So I’d be patching up women and kids for weeks on end. Not the job I was ever supposed to be doing, but needs must 🤷🏻‍♀️ and that actually ended up being way more emotionally traumatic for me than my actual combat role ever was.

If you were in the forces would you want your life depending on a reluctant conscript having done their job correctly?