Army recruitment of unemployed youth

[MistressoftheDarkSide]

Here pigeons, have a cat.

According to the Express and Mail, Liz Kendall thinks that going into the forces would be a good idea for unemployed youngsters. Surprised this has apparently flown under the MN radar. I wonder where this is all going, she mused, with wide eyed faux naivety.

I would say yes because what's the alternative - usually it means young people who have experienced trauma and adverse childhood experiences coming across more trauma which let's be honest the army are not great at dealing with. Being homeless/ care experienced/ lacking in education/ being in poverty may make people more likely to sign up but only because they're desperate and aren't getting the right support to empower them otherwise. If someone genuinely wants to enlist understanding the dangers and makes an informed choice then that's fair enough but I don't think specifically targeting the homeless or care leavers instead of other young people is fair, no.

@nfkl in theory what you say about positive male role models is great but having worked in army camps the domestic abuse and misogyny I've witnessed has been some of the worst I've encountered.

quite a different cultural background going on there though, isn’t there? The army means a very different thing to Israelis

Because of conscription. They aren’t taught it’s something to fear or lower themselves to, or to try and wriggle out of doing.

Relatively few army officer see conflict. Especially these days. And actually speaking as someone who experienced childhood trauma, it doesn’t help having a mundane calm life. Sometimes a bit of conflict is what’s needed to deal with trauma.

What should homeless people and care leavers do then if they have nowhere to go? They don’t have to stay if they don’t like the Army. But you’ll find the vast majority of people DO like the Army. Just because it isn’t slipping into a middle class subset it doesn’t make it a bad option compared to sleeping on the streets.

DH served 35yrs in the RAF. He left school with a handful of qualifications, but the RAF made him, tbh. I never thought he’d leave, even in the months before his exit date he was enquiring about a service extension, it was turned down, and he was gutted. Saying that, he got an excellent job, through the resettlement process, earning more than we ever dreamed of, and within weeks he was happier than he’d been in years. He’d become completely institutionalised and was fearful of jumping ship. A few weeks after he left, he got his lump sum, and his pension kicked in which was great.

DS1 is in the army, he’s 30 and has been in 11yrs. He’s had enough. Out of the cohort who he joined with, there’s 3 or 4 left. He can leave and do whatever he wants because I refused to sign the paperwork for him to join at 16, despite that being what he wanted, so he has 11 GCSEs & 3 A levels. He, also, has the qualifications he’s gained in the army.

He has got to a very good rank, and earns a good wage, which is one of the main problems with him leaving tbh. All he has to pay for atm is his room in the mess and his phone. He knows what he thinks he wants to do but it will be years before his salary becomes comparable to what it is now so it’s a big decision to make.

All he ever wanted to be was a soldier, right from when he was tiny so it’s sad to see him so disillusioned. We had to appeal for him to go in because he suffered with migraines as a child, and that was a no no. They didn’t care about his hay fever, and still don’t, they prescribe him antihistamines because it’s been quite bad the past few years. I really thought he’d do a full career, but it seems not. He loved it at the beginning, he volunteered for everything and has been all over the world. Not anymore though.

What would the alternative be?

If you grow are in a thriving area with lots of different types of entry level jobs with good progression, the Forces would just be another employer offering similar things ...
In deprived areas, they are probably the only employer who offer a job with career progression.

No it’s because their core cultural value is around being a defensive nation prepared to fight against another holocaust/ expulsion on the basis of “never forget, never again”
thats why young people want to learn how to protect Isreal, for the day they have to do it.

As you saw with thousands returning from abroad to do just that - voluntarily - after October 7th

there is simply no comparison to the uk

I’d rather young people gave service than sat at home on the dole getting into trouble.

I think if we still had conscription here our attitude would be the same - seeing it as a positive thing.

I have family in other countries where they will need to do conscription at some point (from what I understand it’s linked to when you leave education). The young people don’t view it as negative at all. It just is.

I think it can genuinely install some positives like resilience into young people. Promote independence. Forcing them to be part of a team, and to think how their actions/attitudes effects the team around them. These things can only be good for society as a whole,

I wouldn’t support conscription here. It’s not for all. But if we did for some reason, I would like to see a huge spread of roles that the young people could choose from - what pp have said about Germany’s previous approach sounds interesting.

Yes I agree with you and it’s a big part of it. My point is if the U.K. had to have the same attitude (and who fucking knows WTF is going on with the world right) we’d get on with it because that’s what humans do. But many people want that life - it’s a good, beneficial life to so many and it really makes young people

There was young care leaver in my son’s regiment. He had had a pretty shit life of it, tbh. Anyway to cut a long story short, DS1 and his senior found him hanging one weekend. They, the police and paramedics got him back, but he died a few days later in hospital.

I firmly believe the armed forces is absolutely not the place for young care leavers or those who have had a traumatic childhood. They need a strong support network behind them. They need someone there when times are shit, when times are good and when times are really tough. They need to know there’s always someone there at the end of the phone for them. Yes, they’ve got their armed forces family, but they need a family behind them too.

But it’s not just Israel. Many other countries have conscription, and it’s not viewed as negative. Austria, Sweden, Finland, Denmark etc. Think there are 9 counties just in Europe.

Well if something like this IS implemented the people who join would need to know the UK would have their backs if (God forbid) they suffered an injury
The cuts coming to disability benefits say otherwise.

The army recruited from my ex's school...a private school. Not a fancy one either - it's since become a state school.

People I know in the army and navy love it. They get to do loads of skiing, sailing, mountaineering etc, travel, there's great cameraderie.

It has always been thus.

But many don’t have a strong network, because their back ground is shit. They may have no family, or their family are abusive. Their friends maybe heading down the gangs, knives, drugs route,

Of course armed forces are not for all - but equally you can’t say it’s wrong for all either.

I feel huge sympathy to the young man you mention, and also for your son for finding him. That must have been pretty horrific.

Have you told that Ukrainians?

British troops sent in Afghanistan maybe?

Young care leavers don't have any family support though...they are often living independently at 16 with minimal support and no one who actually loves and looks out for them.

Not saying the army is the solution but what is this strong network? It simply doesn't exist for the majority. A high proportion end up in jail .

Why don’t you feel like serving members and veterans are treated well? I am in the military (female) and am treated well. I have had an amazing career so far with lots of opportunities. I would actively encourage my children to sign up!

JFC, I was only giving two examples.

You could be doing the admin at the care home and learning accounting and wage management, working on the bin lorries, doing council street sweeping, working in a kindergarten with the children or using existing skills in roles that serve the country in other ways.

It wasn't a dictat that conscientious objectors be used to wipe bottoms of babies or elderly people - in fact they had choices. Lots of choices. My friend chose to do the hospital porter work whilst doing his PhD even though he could be excused.

I think the point is maybe these young people are too vulnerable for a place like the armed forces

I mean I’m not sure I’d like my own daughter there despite having 2 parents as being a women makes her vulnerable to all the rape and sexual abuse that goes on in the armed forces

The Army will be overjoyed (not)

I'm 44 and perimenopausal. But thanks.

It hasn't really

National service would be a good way to staff care homes and nurseries. It doesn't necessarily have to be the army, that is one option.