Army recruitment of unemployed youth

[MistressoftheDarkSide]

Here pigeons, have a cat.

According to the Express and Mail, Liz Kendall thinks that going into the forces would be a good idea for unemployed youngsters. Surprised this has apparently flown under the MN radar. I wonder where this is all going, she mused, with wide eyed faux naivety.

Did he see a specialist or something? Problems managing the allergies with antihistamines? Because a basic hayfever tablet wouldn't be a problem. Did you get to check what's on his medical notes? It's possible there was something there that undermined it beyond a low level allergy which suggested it could be life threatening, which would absolutely be a bar.

The Forces have historically been a way up for young men (and now young women) from impoverished or difficult backgrounds. My great-grandfather (from one line) and grandfather (from another) both benefitted massively.

It took them both from lives of absolutely grinding poverty and gave them opportunities that they would never otherwise have had.

The issue I have is that the army specifically target vulnerable, isolated, disillusioned young people. My question is why they are the main subset of young people being targeted by recruitment. It feels almost predatory.

We live in a very uncertain world I don’t think it’s a bad thing if our armed forces are built up. We need to be able to defend our way of life and that requires armed forces. I think collectively the country needs to get over the “cannon fodder” attitude and be grateful to those who are willing to serve

My DH was a private, served in NI and Iraq. He was the lowest rank you could get and wanted to stay that way because he loved it. But he was one of the few in his camp who hadn’t either grown up in poverty or in foster care.

If you look at how Germany managed it in the last few decades (ending it in 2011), it allowed for jobs like being a hospital porter in your local hospital or working in a care home. It was about national service not military conscription to the front line.

Is it predatory if they give young people who may otherwise be homeless a decent living, a skill and a roof over their heads? They target where they get highest success rates as any organisation should and would. They turn people’s lives around. Thats a good thing.

Because young healthy men have always been what the forces need. Not clapped out 40 something perimenopausal women or elderly men. Although probably because we'd tell the PTIs to fuck off rather than do as we're told....

It would be interesting to know why people do choose to join.

a friends husband was basically given the choice of young offenders or join the navy. He code the Navy and it has been the making of him in many ways. He learned a highly specialised and well remunerated skill (clearance diver) and a great pension from 40. It gave him structure, discipline.

my oldest wants to join the army. We told him we’ll support it as long as he does a degree first to give him some options, and just to grow up a bit. He is attracted by the physicality of it (he’s very into sports and fitness), the opportunities for training and fast promotion. He’s a people person, the idea of communal living does not phase him, and he’s very good at motivating people, He has no interest in working a desk job, ever.

but he’s not particularly patriotic. In fact, he’s never lived in the UK (he was born in NZ and we live in Europe).

how important is patriotism in this decision? From what I’ve read, soldiers die for their mates - and you’d really want your mates to be similarly committed to you.

Does that include any carers she might need the majority of whom will be female.
Then there are the women doing unpaid care
Womens unpaid labour is only noticed when its not done

No, he didn't see a specialist. There wasn't anything in his medical record to indicate it was more serious than just a diagnosis of hayfever or a basic antihistamine.
We consulted with the GP practice manager and got the GP to write a letter (which I paid for) to support his application and reiterate what his notes said.

I also think part of the issue is the type of people suitable for certain job roles within the military.
My job was a combat role, but also required a bit of mental gymnastics. I was perfectly suited for it. But I’ll openly admit that I really did struggle emotionally with some of the moral and ethical challenges my job presented - the actual making of those decisions was well above my pay grade, but I’d be part of the team executing the result of those decisions.
And there’s no nice way to say this, so I’ll try and say it in the least derogatory way possible: the army does benefit from people who don’t have the most advanced emotional intelligence to fill infantry roles. The type of people they can tell to do something and they won’t have an inner fight with any moral scruples - they’ll just do it.
That’s actually part of the recruitment process for US Navy SEALS - they’d probably be diagnosed as clinical sociopaths in the civilian world. They want a certain type of person to be nothing more than a killing machine who can get the job done time and time again without question. And those people usually aren’t the most academically inclined.
Am I comfortable with that? No. Not by a long shot.
But having been in combat situations, I can also see why that type of recruitment is necessary.

My uncle was that unemployed youth. Children, living with partner in b&b where they had one room to sleep in and has to be out of it 8am to 8pm. It was traumatic for all of them.

He joined the army. It certainly saved his relationship and possibly lives as they were all extremely depressed.
He left the army 20 years later and then took gcses (he'd not bothered sitting his cses) and worked until he retired.

For some it would be life changing in a good way.

Someone who does not want to work in a care home should not be there.

Ed Davey was on This Morning recently with a woman whose mum was abused in a care home.
They had a debate about what could be done to stop this kind of abuse.
But the one thing that wasnt brought up is the one thing no Govenment will ever do including the Lib Dems if they ever got in.
And that is to stop care work being advertised through Job Centres or stop ppl being threatened with UC sanctions if they dont take a care position. Stopping Job Centres doing this will stop someone possibly taking their resentment out on the clients (not saying everyone forced by sanction would do this) just saying its a risk. Why is it ok for elderly people to be collateral damage to get unemployment figures down. They would never take the same risks with children by forcing the claimant to be a child minder or be sanctioned.
I realise this is not what you were talking about but it all ties into the fact that the job is not valued.

Suggesting the military to unemployed youth isn't a bad idea. It used to be promoted in schools a lot but I feel like that has tailed off over the last few decades as the army has shrunk. Now we are looking at big increases, pointing out where unemployed youth might find a decent career that also aligns with other government strategies makes sense.

I think conscription is a very different decision. A hugely expensive one and one that would be unpopular. But if things keep going and we need to consider being capable of fighting a war against Russia, we may need peace time conscription to make sure people have the skills to rapidly deploy in the future. Those are probably conversations that are being had in the government (I hope those conversations are being had - these are "interesting" times and we need government to have thought about possibilities).

@JenniferBoothsorry I’m not sure I get the link between my mums comment and unpaid women's work and care?

Its simple really If she got what she suggested there would be even less women working in social care because they would be in the Army

I hope your dad is doing well….its terrible how they were treated at that time and have failed to receive acknowledgment of their long term health issues.

They have amazing apprenticeships on offer but our disaffected youth would have to man or woman up, get fit and put the games consoles down. Also mental health would likely preclude jouning up.

They need to sort out the recruitment process for people who want to join first. It's so fucked up people leave before they begin

@PaintDecisions Can we please not have clapped out, 40 something, peri menopausal and women all in the same sentence? It’s a bit ignorant sounding.

Good luck with positivity and self love when you’re in your forties.

@JenniferBoothoh I see, well if it did ever go back to ye old days it was only for 18 months, I think in some countries it’s 6-12 months. So that’s the time when 18-20 are at uni or looking for work.

Also given that most carers in this country are from overseas and the UK carers are older I’m not sure the correlation works. I work with care in the home sectors and it’s not as common as people think to need carers or going care homes.

Around 2.5% of adults need homes.

This is a really interesting post. I am separated from and divorcing my H, who is an incredibly selfish man who came from a very cosseted background where - due to his mother’s anxiety - he wasn’t exposed to anything that allowed him to build life skills and experience.

I’m now now dating someone who had a much more independent childhood, similar to mine, that built resilience. He served for 6 years from ages19-25 until he was injured and had to leave. He is far more surfacely ‘blokey’ than my H but very, very much more kind, empathetic, considerate and - in a totally non engulfing way - protective of me.

Selfishness runs through my H like a stick of rock and the opposite runs through my partner. Partly it’s early childhood I’m sure, but I’m certain the army had a big impact (positively) on his emotional development.

we are all mid 40s just for context.

The armed forces has never been a place for people just because they’re unemployed.

if you’re indicating that they’re trying to collect cannon fodder for Ukraine, boots on the ground isn’t really the way wars are fought now. No one wants to train and pay billy the dimwit to put professional soldiers in danger

“Out of every one-hundred men, ten shouldn’t even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior and he will bring the others back.”