DS works on a 15 hour min contract at Coffee shop- how available does he need to be every weekend ?

[Munichfam5]

DS has been working at a medium coffee shop chain for a month , 15 hour min contract
we have a big family wedding on 25-27 April in London and so he has requested this time off

his boss has said he can’t have it as other people have requested it off and so he needs to sort out swaps with other staff members

But DS he hasn’t even has his schedule for that week yet and he doesn’t know all the staff properly yet

How demanding Can a coffee shop be when DS is on a 15 hour per week contract ?

TIA

Would you consider this to be helpful or kind?

These kind of contracts infuriate me, DS was on a similar one at McDonald's.
Truth is they expect you to be available 24/7, 365 days of the year with about 5mins notice.
It was impossible to book a dentist appointment, haircut, family birthday, it was a nightmare.
And if they scheduled him to work, often a lot more than 15 hours, it was his responsibility to find cover if he needed time off, and no one wanted extra shifts. He left in the end.
In the ideal world they'd give you regular working days/hours so you can plan and know where you are. My daughter worked at matalan and knew she'd be workingTuesday evening and all day Sunday every week - bliss, But sadly this arrangement is unusual nowadays for retail and hospitality roles.
My advice would be to get experience then look for a job with a regular working pattern.
Basically he can either do the shift, try and get cover, phone in sick(won't like that and a bit obvious!) or resign

He can just tell the manager which days he can work and which days he can’t work that week. It’s the same in care, management expect total availability and have no regard for work life balance, which is shocking considering the poor pay

Par for the course in 'starter' jobs - I've seen it in hospitality, retail, theatres, cinemas.100% flexibility expect from employee, 0% flexibility from employer. Then make it the employee's problem to sort any days off.

What he needs to do is tell them he will not be available on certain days. He can then expect to be 'punished' by not getting shifts for a while, or lots of split shifts. Maybe he'll get the odd call some mornings asking if he can work that day. On and on, until they realise they are now short staffed and no one else wants the hours, or the manager moves on so no one remembers the grudge.

His contract should include availability windows which he filled out, unfortunately if he's put all day every day he will be expected to be available, and that will likely have made them pick him over candidates who gave smaller availability windows.

I would suggest longer term he starts applying for supermarket jobs. They are generally more reasonable, and have a lot more staff for if shifts need switching.

If other staff have already booked this time off, there isn’t much he can do? It’s first in best dressed at my partners work for holidays/time. If people are booking a proper holiday there can be stuff on the calendar 6 months or more in advance. He really should have made sure go got the time off booked in as soon as he started as he obviously knew about it.

Totally normal for hospitality he will be expected to be available within opening hours but will only be guaranteed 15 hours. The manager can refuse annual leave if others are already off or if not enough annual leave had been accrued. Had he have given the dates at interview he would have been given the time off. His options are see what he’s working and attempt to swap shifts/lose shifts, call in sick (could lead to termination) or refuse to work and risk losing his job.

And why, if he's a graduate is he only working 15 hours a week? Surely Amazon, Lidl etc are looking for full time staff.
This is the problem today. He's not standing on his own 2 feet at 21/2. He's relying on the helicopter parents to deal with his life for him. Surely if he's got a degree he should have mentioned the fact he can't work then.

Don't be a twit.

This is normal. My DD who is still at school has to arrange shift swaps or shift cover for things like this. It annoying but normal and expected.

I had similar at uni requesting time off at Christmas (but working new year) and was told no, you must work Christmas Eve. That would have made it impossible to get home. So I gave them my last shift date, but let them know I would remain open to coming back from X date if wanted. After 2 weeks they caved in and it was suddenly official holiday. The reason I could stare them out was that there were tons of part-time hospitality jobs. It's the same now, loads of jobs and not enough staff. I would advise him to give his notice while politely explaining it's only because he can't work those specific dates. He keeps his reference and it'll give the manager a few weeks to consider what s/he wants to do about it.

You are "meant" to be available all the time in part time retail work, I imagine it's the same for coffee shop chains.

Yes, they do expect you to be free to cover sickness and holidays every single day on the basis of a part time contract. My contract was only 10hrs per week at one point on retail, but I was not allowed to not be available every day. You have to keep yourself free incase you get called in.

It's stupid. Thank god I don't work retail anymore.

I don’t think it’s remotely helpful to treat a gown man in his 20s like an 8 year old and have his mother deal with his annual leave at his job! It’s ridiculous.

Would you consider that she doesn't have to only post helpful or kind things?

This is all conjecture. Have you read his contract?

The staff rota and the holiday calendar are 2 separate things
so people have already booked time off there is no availability for additional people to be on leave

the fact he only works 15 hours makes no difference and tbh bring that up just shows a shit attitude to work

This isn’t about how much notice people gave already booked the time off so that’s his business reason

and any good manager makes sure they have enough staff to cover there shifts not give people what ever time off they demand to keep them happy and leave the business short staffed

My DS swaps his shifts with others. Rota released two weeks ahead.

Your DS needs to ask others and speak to his manager.

There's no obligation to be helfpful or kind and they're valid questions.

The man"s a graduate not a clueless 16 year old who wouldn't realise. It's standard when you start a new job to tell them of dates you already have commitments on.

As.for those saying the rotas haven't been done yet and they can just rota someone else.on - not if there is no on else available because other people have already booked the days off.

It doesn't matter how many days it is, how many hours he works, or that it's only a cafe. He signed a contract and now has to abide by that contract. It's bad luck but his employer needs staff in.

That is part of the Easter hols this year so people may already have holidays booked in

Sorry but this attitude is completely ridiculous. Work doesn't rule most people's lives. The notion that anyone would miss a family wedding for any job let alone a very part time coffee shop job is ludicrous. What happens in this type of job, and I know from experience, is that staff will just call in sick if they don't get the leave approved for important events. Just tell the manager he's not available that weekend because of a family wedding and see what happens. What should have happened really was that they asked him any prior commitments when he started the job.

I agree

I thought employers with zero hours contracts generally had a large pool of staff cos flexibility cuts both ways and they can't always rely on staff being available when they want them

Why should it be the responsibility of the manager? The manager has said other staff already have leave booked that weekend so they can’t accommodate this request. That’s it that’s the end of their responsibility. If they’re kind (or self interested because it sounds like the employee might no show in this scenario) they might try to help but they’re not obliged to

To be clear I think zero hours contracts are shit and give all the power to the employer. But they exist and this individual is working one so here we are.

This seems a practical suggestion.