I’ve lost control over daughter.

[joiningdave]

She doesn’t listen to a word I say, if I say she can’t have something to eat until after dinner she’ll look at me with disgust and take it out the fridge and eat it anyway.
If I ask her to get changed out of her school uniform she ignores me or says no.
she has to have the seat she wants on the sofa and if her sister sits there she’ll squeeze in behind her and kick her in the back until she moves.
she won’t go to bed when told, just refuses. If she is asked to pass something she’ll say no ask someone else.
she doesn’t walk nicely home from school and will run off crossing roads without looking leaving me helplessly calling her name to stop while she carries on. She is so pleased with herself when she point blank refuses to do as she’s asked and looks so smug, even telling me I can’t make her.
I have completely lost control of her and so exhausted if I didn’t have other children who are well behaved I would have given her up, she’s just too challenging for me and I’m not cut out for a kid like this, she’s making our lives miserable and I’m not coping with her. Then she will suddenly be all loving and cuddly after.
she is the middle child of 3 girls and is 7 with ADHD
and like a lot of ADHD children she’s perfectly well behaved at school but within minutes of her coming home I feel drained and depleted.

A lot of people here don't have children with autism/address. Itvis just so exhausting, draining and soul destroying.

People who don’t have children with ADHD don’t realise that the usual behaviour strategies simply don’t work!

I get it OP. Try and find a course, local or online, about dealing with ADHD, it did help me.

DS is now a young adult, but things we’ve done over the years which have helped:
we don’t buy snacks, treats are only for Saturday and or Sunday and they are earned

lots of physical exercise

when behaving well, show a huge amount of attention, smiles, laugh, dance, etc

when calm, show lots of love, strong hugs, so that they feel secure

when not behaving don’t react or give too much attention, any attention even negative is what they want

however, there needs to be a consequence for all type of negative behaviour, it needs to be something you can control, but you need to be very consistent

don’t give your kids crap processed food with sweetners, etc

good luck and don’t give up! I promise you there is light at the end of the tunnel!

I was going to say this, as adhd is often comorbid with other neurodivergent conditions. I suspect that if the usual behaviour management strategies aren't working then you may have more success with ND ones instead. Given that her behaviour is demand avoidant, you could perhaps look at the strategies suggested on the PDA website. The Explosive Child is a really helpful book to read too.

She actually sounds like my then 6yo dd when she was near rock bottom, which preceeded a complete shutdown of normal daily functioning. Anxiety and PDA can often look similar, too - so even if she doesn't have PDA, those strategies may help improve things in the meantime.

You may get better advice on the SN boards tbh. On here you'll get lots of people with no experience of ND telling you to do just take control and stamp your authority. At the start of my journey with dd I listened to all those voices which invariably escalated her behaviour. Our relationship became terrible, which fed the cycle. At points, I said I'd have given her up for adoption.

Two years on and we're so close again, she has my heart and soul. She hasn't turned into the monster I feared - she is kind, loving, funny, listens and shares well and respects boundaries (mostly!) But it wasn't without a lot of hard work to keep her anxiety low and some of the parenting strategies feel counterintuitive. Chances are, if you have other dc who are well behaved, then the problem is not your parenting. All behaviour is communication.

As others have said normal parent strategies do not work for adhd kids I have an adhd DD. Look up books and web sites about it. Meds are a game changer too

You're getting a lot of stick here from people who clearly haven't got children with ASD/ADHD/ODD/PDA. We do and we had terrible problems with DS from about 6-11. Honestly nothing worked. We'd tell him firmly, he'd smirk and do it anyway. We'd threaten no screen time etc, he'd completely ignore us. We'd try to physically march him to his room, he'd hit and kick us. He would also have the most almighty meltdowns, laying on the floor kicking and screaming, or kicking walls and furniture or smacking his head against the wall. He's broken 2 doors, a door frame, the fridge door, loads of smaller items, we were always bruised. If he was cross or upset when we were out (usually because I'd told him to stop antagonising his sister) he'd run off down the road away from me and every time I moved towards him he'd just move further away.

All the pp saying just be firm have got no idea. I've also got a DD who rarely acts up and responds to ordinary firm parenting when she does.

My DS is 12 now and in the last year-ish there's far less conflict than there used to be (although he still has his moments!) but it's taken a lot of work from us all. We've had CAMHS behavioural support, he has counselling at school, and is also now medicated for ADHD (Medikinet XL). We've learnt that he always needs to know ahead of time what's going to happen and what the expectations are. We give him choices where possible. We preempt certain situations and give really clear instructions. DH and I both have quite a bit of 1:1 time with him. Lots and lots of talking (when he's calm).

So OP, there's no easy answer, it takes a lot of work and a lot of support, but there's light at the end of the tunnel.

^ THIS ^

Get a bloody grip, she’s 7. You’re allowing her to run rings round you and bully and assault her siblings.

OP you're getting a hard time on this thread but I think the above could be good advice

Also, pick your battles. Does she need to get changed after school? Why can't she wear uniform for the rest of the day?

And if she has ADHD could she be struggling at home because she's worked so hard to keep it together in school?

But you do need a strategy to deal with this "she doesn’t walk nicely home from school and will run off crossing roads without looking leaving me helplessly calling her name" as this is a danger to herself and other road users

I don't know, something just seems a bit off with this thread. It feels like you don't like your daughter that much and she's the 'problem' child. Which is sad.

Reach out for support. I think the two of you need help to work things through together otherwise the trajectory for your poor dd is not good.

Well no, often ND children require a different set of strategies- in a lot of cases the usual methods just do not work in the same way.

Parents then often feel like they are indeed crap at parenting when no amount of firm boundaries, discipline and consequences is working.

NT children are pretty easy to parent IMO. Many of us have a neurotypical child first and find it a breeze in terms of implementing boundaries and rules and having well-behaved children. Then your second is ND and none of this works and you’re wondering what the hell you’re doing wrong.

OP it sounds incredibly tough I would probably seek some help and advice from SEN-specific spaces, parents or other children with ADHD may have some suitable advice and tips for you 💐

I’m still reading, just taking it all in. I spoke to her this morning about yesterday’s behaviour and she says she doesn’t want to be naughty but she just can’t help it, I can tell she knows she is different.
She is very good at school but she doesn’t like going because she’s frightened of all the teachers who shout.
I am also ND so I get sensory overload and overwhelmed with her which exacerbates things. I’m also not very organised and she’s deliberately unhelpful and doesn’t do anything for herself so I find it frustrating but once I calm down I feel more positive.

In a nutshell, behaviour or actions stemming from a perceived loss of autonomy or inequality, often triggered by expectations or standards which feel overwhelming to a person with PDA. The behaviours are an instinctive to “restore balance”. It’s anxiety based. Obviously it doesn’t explain all behaviours of this kind, it’s very possible that it’s disobedience stemming from something else. But worth some investigating when dealing with ND children.

Have you told her that she is, and that you are, ND? Children need to understand themselves why they find things difficult and overwhelming. Arm her with the understanding that when she feels this way you know what state she is in and you can come up with ways together to tackle it.

I’ll never understand why parents hide these things from their kid. They need to understand themselves just as much if not more than we need to understand them.

There's quite a lot in here. She likely is ashamed about her behaviour and how it impacts on you, which is something else that feeds the cycle. They often know how they should behave, but lack the control and inhibition to react differently. This will be magnified ten-fold by your own reactions.

She is also likely masking at school and unloading on you at home, which is very common in ND girls in particular. Coke Bottle effect is very real.

You say she's deliberately unhelpful, but is she really or are you projecting your own adult thoughts, feelings and perceptions into the situation? Could she be craving your attention, because she feels safer as a result?

I echo what the pp said about talking to children about their neurodivergence to help them understand themselves and their reactions better. I often use my own feelings and experiences to explain her own reactions to my dd because she lacks interoception and emotional literacy. This helps her feel less alone in coping with the world as she knows she has an ally who understands how she feels, and is reassured that everyone feels strong feelings, but we differ in how we react to that.

Finally, does she have an ehcp in place? You may find that if her needs were better managed at school, he behaviour at home would improve.

Things that worked for us -

Pick your battles - the changing out of uniform, is that really necessary? Or is it just causing conflict for no benefit? I'd say it's generally better to focus on non negotiables such as road safety and not harming others.

DS (autistic) used to be like this after school as he'd been masking all day. A snack straight out of school often helped, it also means you can control what the snack is. Keep snacks in the house out of reach/hidden.

Try to work out what the actual issue is, so refusing to go to bed, is it attention seeking or something else - DS refused to go to bed, and when I thought about it I didn't blame him, he'd go up at 8pm and wouldn't go to sleep until gone midnight/1am. I couldn't blame him for not wanting to be in his room for four or five hours or longer not sleeping. To be honest, being prescribed melatonin and the resulting improvement in sleep has really helped with a lot of the other behavioural issues.

Is there any help available? Whether extra ELSA sessions in school, or anything outside of school she could be referred to that would help with emotional regulation. We were referred through the local Families First Advice Line to a local service that ran a group DS attended once a week after school for a term and it helped hugely with his behaviour - that and the melatonin were the two things that had the greatest impact.

This is true - though DS is our first (and only!) child.

But I'd look at nieces and nephews and look at DS and just think we were terrible parents - yet at the same time when he wasn't dysregulated we were often complimented on what a polite, well behaved, delightful child we had raised.

But disciplining was a nightmare, the meltdowns were distressing (though not so painful when he was very young and more easily restrained), and I was very worried about his social skills.

I think you need to reframe some of the things she is taking for granted as treats/privileges.

Watching tv is a privilege - if you kick your sister you lose the privilege. I have much better behaviour from my ADHD son when the tv isn't in the mix. Maybe take it away altogether or reduce it to a weekend treat?

Freedom to walk ahead is a privilege - if you run off, you have to hold mummy's hand for 2 minutes until I can trust you to walk nicely again. If she argues, increase the time.

Another way for walking nicely is to play games (eg. Eye spy, 20 questions, Yes/No game, or tell stories, jokes or riddles) so that she might be more motivated to hear what you are saying than run around like a wild thing).

Look at what snacks are available. If it is fruit/something healthy, I would let it go. If she is grabbing family packs of Mars bars then you need to take it out of her hand.

I would also spell out what the expectation is beforehand very clearly. "When we get home, I want you to go upstairs and lay on your bed for 5 minutes" (gives her a moment to decompress and transition from the school day into the home day). "Once you've decided what you want to wear, get changed and come downstairs and we can have a drink and a snack".

Good luck 🍀

You just need to reinforce the boundaries. If I'd said no to a snack and my child got one anyway, I'd be taking it off them and putting them on the naughty step. (But you do need to address thr actual issue of them being hungry by anticipating the need and making sure there is acceptable food at an acceptable time. Like saying get changed and I'll make your snack).

Won't get changed? Fine, no weekend clothes for you.

Runs off? Threatened with reins to walk home a baby. And threat carried out if necessary.

Won't pass stuff or go to bed - every minute it carries on will he timed and taken off of her next trip, whether that's a birthday party in 2 weeks or leaving the cinema early.

Agree with all of this. But for the walking home I'd get some reins and carry them with you "walk nicely, if you can't ill have to put the reins on you to keep you safe"

You can't just let her run in the road, she'll get killed by a car.

Is there a park or other area close to school where you can take the kids for a short while to burn energy before heading home?

I used to pick my child up by car and deliberately park some distance away on the same side of the road so she could run off the stress of school.

Sometimes shouting and reading the riot act don't help.
Talk to her. Explain how this is effecting you.
Explain that if we all get along and behave nicely we can do nicer things... if we are fighting... we stay at home having a crap time.
Ask her how she would feel if her sisters were rude to you...
Ask her why she is well behaved at school.
Kids are smart and they don't want to hurt us.

Agree with all of this @joiningdave

I thought she was a teenager the way you were describing your reaction to her . You have to get some sense of control or discipline now. take some parenting classes if necessary but get firmer - watch Super Nanny!
You make her do those things…. BUT I would add - in equal measure - reward the good and improve your bond at the same time!! You can’t just be strict or it doesn’t work.
She may be doing for attention.
Can you play board games all together? Do fun quizzes? Play hide and seek? If you all laugh together and have fun, cook with them, then when you’re cross, or ignore her when she’s irritating - it will be more impactful. If you’re always half nagging and then ignoring her when she’s good cos it’s a bit of peace then the bond deteriorates.
im prepared to bet that things will really improve if you get stricter/ firmer combined with increase in fun, games and laughter..

She's 7, ffs. I thought when I started reading she'd be about 17. Stop surrendering ground to a 7 year old child for Heaven's Sake. You haven't lost control, you've stopped even trying. You've got the power here, not her so pull yourself together.

If she has already been diagnosed with ADHD as a 7 year old girl who is well behaved at school then she clearly shows quite strong other symptoms.

Have you considered ADHD medication? It is not a light decision but she sounds similar to a friend’s child (also ADHD and also tall and strong) and medication was a real turning point.

Don't buy the snacks

All the comments saying "just take control" are really unhelpful. I don't disagree about firm boundaries, but it's quite a hard age, and she has a lot of siblings so I wonder if she might also benefit from a bit more love and attention. Being a shouty tyrant is not the answer, despite what some commenters would have you believe. Read about Oliver James' ideas about love bombing. Good luck.