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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Teachers who have watched 'Adolescence'- what are your thoughts?

518 replies

Fstt1978 · 19/03/2025 14:47

Had an interesting experience this week after watching this at the weekend

sanctioned 4 boys this week with a demerit each - for pushing and shoving in the corridor- swearing loudly and generally being gobby to me.
All 4 boys parents have written emails to say it's unfair/ I'm picking on them etc etc. As it was 4 of them- none of them can be singled out.
We also have a boy caught on CCTV physically assaulting a much younger student unprovoked - it is categorically an assault- with the victims parents pressing charges. He has been permanently excluded and his parents have instructed a solicitor to contest this.

What is going on with parenting boys? Girls sanctioned rarely have parents like this - this is NOT a goady thread- I am genuinely really interested , and open to discussion about it

OP posts:
Californianpoppy · 19/03/2025 21:50

And yes, the school scene was like any school I've ever taught in. Especially the weariness of the fire alarm and the semi hysteria of the dizzy girls.
I draw the line at the video showings though. Only English and RE get to justify videos. And even then, it's got to be relevant and something kids can't easily watch outside school. We are not, as one head used to say, children's entertainers.

But those were pre phone days.

Goldenbear · 19/03/2025 21:55

Even if someone does feel emasculated, if they have enough intelligence to realise that's a vain response to the situation, then it doesn't really matter. The problem is men who think this is valid response and want Trad set ups. Even worse when they have daughters and don't really care about their independence via education. It really isn't hard to impart this stuff to sons, what is so hard about talking to your DC from a young age. Having some ideals is a good thing, ensure you're not anti -intellectual, which is another thing celebrated now.

ItsUpToYou · 19/03/2025 21:55

Californianpoppy · 19/03/2025 21:50

And yes, the school scene was like any school I've ever taught in. Especially the weariness of the fire alarm and the semi hysteria of the dizzy girls.
I draw the line at the video showings though. Only English and RE get to justify videos. And even then, it's got to be relevant and something kids can't easily watch outside school. We are not, as one head used to say, children's entertainers.

But those were pre phone days.

“Is it terrorism?” during the fire alarm was definitely a de ja vu moment!

marsaline · 19/03/2025 21:58

Goldenbear · 19/03/2025 21:27

Well that's good as it is really tedious how you are deliberately misunderstanding my post. I'll say it again, I never said All private school Mums. Why are your comprehension skills so poor! (That's rhetorical by the way)

My comprehension skills are excellent thanks. We can all see what you said and that you are then trying to wriggle out of it by talking about your “truth” and “anecdata” Why can you not admit that you made a sexist comment which was completely unfounded and move on (that’s rhetorical by the way)

Perhaps you can also see that saying that a question is rhetorical in the context you did is actually just an attempt to shut someone up. It’s akin to “no debate”

Dollydaydream100 · 19/03/2025 21:59

Goldenbear · 19/03/2025 20:20

Oh I'm definitely not, if that's aimed at me. People are deluded if they think private schools aren't inhabited by these kids. The attitudes are from the parents and if the Dad earns all the money and the Mum stays at home paying for treatments and plastic surgery what does that say about the values held.

I think the posters making comments like this don't actually have any experience of private schools and are just being rather silly. The only parents I see with lip fillers etc near me are the ones at the local state school who come from the estate...

I personally don't need to justify sending my dc's to the private schools they've attended to anyone. I live my life according to my own desires and rules, not to impress. And the only people who's approval I care about is my family's.

The schools we chose were and are amazing and the results speak for themselves - but more importantly than that is the fact my dc's have loved going there - they haven't had to deal with any of the shit I dealt with growing up at my inner city state school. Drugs and fights and aggressive behaviour etc don't even feature on the radar. Half of my experience of high school was spent being scared of being singled out by the rough kids and either humiliated or physically attacked.

My dd's school has no such thing as detention as they don't see it as necessary - the girls are that well behaved and are taught to modify their own behaviour in a cohort of hard working kids who support and encourage one another and respect their teachers. They pull one another other up.

At my ds's boys school they are regularly taught about women's issues (they've recently been learning about the taking away of womens rights in Iran), actively discuss issues such as the popularity of Andrew Tate etc (ds thinks he's a dick) and I can have a conversation with him about any manner of subjects. they are made to volunteer at homeless shelters/old peoples homes etc and ds and his friends are the nicest, most socially aware teenagers I've ever encountered. He has friends from the state school who are obviously wonderful too - the majority of them are.

My dc's were all sad when they left to go to uni and still go back to visit their old schools.

Their gratification and the positive experiences they had at school is all the proof I need that we made the right choice. I didn't want my children going to a school where kids carry knives/deal drugs in the playground and attack teachers (all actual occurrences at our local state school) or are bullied bc they're studious and hard working. Unfortunately in a lot of state schools the few ruin it for the many, and it was a risk I wasn't willing to take.

Those of you who are saying private schools are just as bad as state schools - how would you know if you've only experienced the state system? What are you comparing? Do you have any actual stats? Or just going off one or two stories you've heard about misogyny in private boys schools?

Our dc's private education has been worth every single penny and I'm so glad I don't recognise any of the behaviours in the OP in my own kids experience of school.

Obviously there will be problems in some private schools, and there are some excellent state schools but comparing the two on balance is just some socialist fantasy. You're in cloud cuckoo land if you think there is the same level of anti social behaviour and unwillingness to learn in private schools as in state.

Oh, and the "public schoolboys are horrible" rhetoric comes from exactly where it seems to come from - envy and the equal sharing of misery mindset. If they can't have it they don't want anyone else to either basically! 🤷‍♀️ They have to believe all schools are shit, bc they've have to send their own offspring to crap schools and are pissed about it.

Ritzybitzy · 19/03/2025 22:01

Goldenbear · 19/03/2025 21:45

It's a factual observation, it doesn't have an emotion attached to it. In the context of this discussion where people are deluded if they think private school is a sanctuary for equality!

However, like others on here you probably aren't interested in the actual discussion, just deflect and pull out of context! What are you opinions on the thread title again, I missed what you thought as I can't see any other posts from you?🙄

It’s a factual observation that the mothers are all getting plastic surgery? You know what a factual observation is right? Because a narrow minded judgement based on a narrow pool is not.

Dollydaydream100 · 19/03/2025 22:01

marsaline · 19/03/2025 21:58

My comprehension skills are excellent thanks. We can all see what you said and that you are then trying to wriggle out of it by talking about your “truth” and “anecdata” Why can you not admit that you made a sexist comment which was completely unfounded and move on (that’s rhetorical by the way)

Perhaps you can also see that saying that a question is rhetorical in the context you did is actually just an attempt to shut someone up. It’s akin to “no debate”

I agree that Goldenbear is doubling down and trying to wriggle out of their nasty comment by waffling and obfuscating. The bile and crux of the matter always spills out of these types of posters eventually!

Nutmuncher · 19/03/2025 22:01

Weak, ineffective parents are enabling this kind of frightening teenage boy behaviour on a scale unseen before now.

What is absolutely certain is that society as we see it today it is degrading rapidly, these awful entitled teens are the futures adults. God help any decent ones because this extreme mentality prevalent amongst teen boys is a curse on a generation.

User32459 · 19/03/2025 22:02

howchildrenreallylearn · 19/03/2025 19:27

I think this is partly true.

There definitely needs to be a discussion around how we raise boys and men’s role in society. The likes of Tate have monopolised on the problem with male emasculation.

Research is needed into WHY so many boys/young men are so attracted to the shite he speaks. It’s no use just criticising him for it, we need to be honest about why he’s been so successful.

Anyone any ideas as to why? I’d say it’s a complex issue with some variables being the overly pressured, academic education system (& lack of physical movement for boys), families living in poverty and economic hardship, divorce, social media… thoughts?

Some factors are he's highly manipulative and a confidence trickster. He has a very persuasive way of speaking and is charismatic.

But he doesn't operate in a vacuum. How he says it is part of it but what he says is popular for a reason. I think a lot of males either feel left behind by society or that it's set up against them. It doesn't help that we have a broken economic model. Buying a house seems unachievable. The dating market is awful (for men and women).

OkTrueBluered · 19/03/2025 22:06

This episode reminded me of my state middle school from 1995 to 1998 though not on quite such an awful scale. My DH (not English) said to me, "is that what it is like?", in horror.

Boys also then still had disgusting attitudes towards girls - we were either "slags" or "frigid". Nasty comments that we smelt like "fish" etc etc. But at that time we had to laugh along and be "cool girls" or face being social pariahs.

But now it's worse because parents can email the school anytime they like and every kid has ADHD or ASD or some disability or another which is used as an excuse. You only have to look at the threads on this site. Why anyone would be a teacher in England is beyond me and I really feel for teachers.

Many schools in other countries have also completely banned phones at school which would be a good start. Don't give me the excuses about enforcing that either, not interested.

Goldenbear · 19/03/2025 22:07

Ritzybitzy · 19/03/2025 22:01

It’s a factual observation that the mothers are all getting plastic surgery? You know what a factual observation is right? Because a narrow minded judgement based on a narrow pool is not.

Oh look another disingenuous poster, my observation from my anecdata was related to the point that unfortunately private school children don't all live in these marvellously progressive households, which was what was being presented at the beginning of the thread

Now back to the thread, what do you think again?? I still can't see your point.

Haveyouanyjam · 19/03/2025 22:11

Dollydaydream100 · 19/03/2025 21:59

I think the posters making comments like this don't actually have any experience of private schools and are just being rather silly. The only parents I see with lip fillers etc near me are the ones at the local state school who come from the estate...

I personally don't need to justify sending my dc's to the private schools they've attended to anyone. I live my life according to my own desires and rules, not to impress. And the only people who's approval I care about is my family's.

The schools we chose were and are amazing and the results speak for themselves - but more importantly than that is the fact my dc's have loved going there - they haven't had to deal with any of the shit I dealt with growing up at my inner city state school. Drugs and fights and aggressive behaviour etc don't even feature on the radar. Half of my experience of high school was spent being scared of being singled out by the rough kids and either humiliated or physically attacked.

My dd's school has no such thing as detention as they don't see it as necessary - the girls are that well behaved and are taught to modify their own behaviour in a cohort of hard working kids who support and encourage one another and respect their teachers. They pull one another other up.

At my ds's boys school they are regularly taught about women's issues (they've recently been learning about the taking away of womens rights in Iran), actively discuss issues such as the popularity of Andrew Tate etc (ds thinks he's a dick) and I can have a conversation with him about any manner of subjects. they are made to volunteer at homeless shelters/old peoples homes etc and ds and his friends are the nicest, most socially aware teenagers I've ever encountered. He has friends from the state school who are obviously wonderful too - the majority of them are.

My dc's were all sad when they left to go to uni and still go back to visit their old schools.

Their gratification and the positive experiences they had at school is all the proof I need that we made the right choice. I didn't want my children going to a school where kids carry knives/deal drugs in the playground and attack teachers (all actual occurrences at our local state school) or are bullied bc they're studious and hard working. Unfortunately in a lot of state schools the few ruin it for the many, and it was a risk I wasn't willing to take.

Those of you who are saying private schools are just as bad as state schools - how would you know if you've only experienced the state system? What are you comparing? Do you have any actual stats? Or just going off one or two stories you've heard about misogyny in private boys schools?

Our dc's private education has been worth every single penny and I'm so glad I don't recognise any of the behaviours in the OP in my own kids experience of school.

Obviously there will be problems in some private schools, and there are some excellent state schools but comparing the two on balance is just some socialist fantasy. You're in cloud cuckoo land if you think there is the same level of anti social behaviour and unwillingness to learn in private schools as in state.

Oh, and the "public schoolboys are horrible" rhetoric comes from exactly where it seems to come from - envy and the equal sharing of misery mindset. If they can't have it they don't want anyone else to either basically! 🤷‍♀️ They have to believe all schools are shit, bc they've have to send their own offspring to crap schools and are pissed about it.

This is only one side of the coin. I went to private school and misogyny and toxic masculinity was rife despite behaviour generally being good.

I also had friends who went to extremely expensive private school and they all took drugs and did very little positive with their lives.

The main difference is that if you have a supportive school and interested supportive parents you will likely be fine. If you have parents who expect school to do the main work raising their children, there will be problems, and if you have schools where behaviour isn’t controlled and learning is disrupted then that will be a problem even if parents are supportive and engaged.

In my experience the most entitled awful misogynistic men were all wealthy privileged males as their entitlement was across all areas. My experience of private school is that there was a big difference between the kids whose parents worked hard to earn money to pay for their kids and prioritised their education, and those who had inherited and expected wealth and would never have gone to a comp.

Goldenbear · 19/03/2025 22:14

Dollydaydream100 · 19/03/2025 21:59

I think the posters making comments like this don't actually have any experience of private schools and are just being rather silly. The only parents I see with lip fillers etc near me are the ones at the local state school who come from the estate...

I personally don't need to justify sending my dc's to the private schools they've attended to anyone. I live my life according to my own desires and rules, not to impress. And the only people who's approval I care about is my family's.

The schools we chose were and are amazing and the results speak for themselves - but more importantly than that is the fact my dc's have loved going there - they haven't had to deal with any of the shit I dealt with growing up at my inner city state school. Drugs and fights and aggressive behaviour etc don't even feature on the radar. Half of my experience of high school was spent being scared of being singled out by the rough kids and either humiliated or physically attacked.

My dd's school has no such thing as detention as they don't see it as necessary - the girls are that well behaved and are taught to modify their own behaviour in a cohort of hard working kids who support and encourage one another and respect their teachers. They pull one another other up.

At my ds's boys school they are regularly taught about women's issues (they've recently been learning about the taking away of womens rights in Iran), actively discuss issues such as the popularity of Andrew Tate etc (ds thinks he's a dick) and I can have a conversation with him about any manner of subjects. they are made to volunteer at homeless shelters/old peoples homes etc and ds and his friends are the nicest, most socially aware teenagers I've ever encountered. He has friends from the state school who are obviously wonderful too - the majority of them are.

My dc's were all sad when they left to go to uni and still go back to visit their old schools.

Their gratification and the positive experiences they had at school is all the proof I need that we made the right choice. I didn't want my children going to a school where kids carry knives/deal drugs in the playground and attack teachers (all actual occurrences at our local state school) or are bullied bc they're studious and hard working. Unfortunately in a lot of state schools the few ruin it for the many, and it was a risk I wasn't willing to take.

Those of you who are saying private schools are just as bad as state schools - how would you know if you've only experienced the state system? What are you comparing? Do you have any actual stats? Or just going off one or two stories you've heard about misogyny in private boys schools?

Our dc's private education has been worth every single penny and I'm so glad I don't recognise any of the behaviours in the OP in my own kids experience of school.

Obviously there will be problems in some private schools, and there are some excellent state schools but comparing the two on balance is just some socialist fantasy. You're in cloud cuckoo land if you think there is the same level of anti social behaviour and unwillingness to learn in private schools as in state.

Oh, and the "public schoolboys are horrible" rhetoric comes from exactly where it seems to come from - envy and the equal sharing of misery mindset. If they can't have it they don't want anyone else to either basically! 🤷‍♀️ They have to believe all schools are shit, bc they've have to send their own offspring to crap schools and are pissed about it.

I went to private school until I was 12 so I do very much have experience of this world, that and you actually know zero about me and my wealth. Hilarious.

I am sure the facade is exactly as you describe and many children are great, just as they are at state school, believe it or not but that doesn't change the dynamics at home. Don't delude yourself that private school is all dandy when it comes to mysoginy, I forget, when the # Metoo movement happened, how many private schools had many unflattering posts about what goes on behind the scenes. Again, rhetorical.

What is your actual opinion on the thread title or don't you have one??

Perculiar · 19/03/2025 22:14

Dollydaydream100 · 19/03/2025 16:06

I don't recognise any of this but mine are in private school. The children are definitely better behaved (have plenty of friends with kids in state and some of the stories curl my hair). We've put 4 dc's through private school and only two of them ever had a detention for not handing in homework on time which they attended no question and got a bollocking from us.

Move to private OP?

Gosh you are very naive if you think private schools are somehow immune to many of these issues just because you’ve paid money for them

Goldenbear · 19/03/2025 22:15

Dollydaydream100 · 19/03/2025 22:01

I agree that Goldenbear is doubling down and trying to wriggle out of their nasty comment by waffling and obfuscating. The bile and crux of the matter always spills out of these types of posters eventually!

Omg don't delude yourself that people are envious of you and your cash, that is just embarrassing 😆

marsaline · 19/03/2025 22:17

Goldenbear · 19/03/2025 22:07

Oh look another disingenuous poster, my observation from my anecdata was related to the point that unfortunately private school children don't all live in these marvellously progressive households, which was what was being presented at the beginning of the thread

Now back to the thread, what do you think again?? I still can't see your point.

You do realise.that anecdata is a term used to describe the “evidence” put forward as factual proof by people whose great aunt Maureen was told it’s definitely true by Dave from the chippy’s next door neighbour.

So yes your “truth” was definitely anecdata..

Goldenbear · 19/03/2025 22:19

marsaline · 19/03/2025 22:17

You do realise.that anecdata is a term used to describe the “evidence” put forward as factual proof by people whose great aunt Maureen was told it’s definitely true by Dave from the chippy’s next door neighbour.

So yes your “truth” was definitely anecdata..

What's your opinion on the thread title again, I still can't see any posts covering that, just defensiveness and deluded rubbish about private schools.

marsaline · 19/03/2025 22:20

Goldenbear · 19/03/2025 22:19

What's your opinion on the thread title again, I still can't see any posts covering that, just defensiveness and deluded rubbish about private schools.

Mine? You haven’t read the thread very thoroughly the since I was one of the very first posters.

Ritzybitzy · 19/03/2025 22:24

Goldenbear · 19/03/2025 22:07

Oh look another disingenuous poster, my observation from my anecdata was related to the point that unfortunately private school children don't all live in these marvellously progressive households, which was what was being presented at the beginning of the thread

Now back to the thread, what do you think again?? I still can't see your point.

So your factual observation is that some kids from private schools come from households where there’s what…? A sole household earner? Do you want to check the facts on that? As in the actual demographic household of children in private schools? Or did you in fact mean something else?

Ritzybitzy · 19/03/2025 22:29

Goldenbear · 19/03/2025 22:19

What's your opinion on the thread title again, I still can't see any posts covering that, just defensiveness and deluded rubbish about private schools.

Perhaps it’s because people are rightly irritated with your misogynistic comment.

Goldenbear · 19/03/2025 22:30

Ritzybitzy · 19/03/2025 22:24

So your factual observation is that some kids from private schools come from households where there’s what…? A sole household earner? Do you want to check the facts on that? As in the actual demographic household of children in private schools? Or did you in fact mean something else?

My observation is that people presenting private school as the panacea for non adoption of the manosphere ideology are wrong - my observation is that is categorically bollox!

howchildrenreallylearn · 19/03/2025 22:32

opendoorsopening · 19/03/2025 21:29

I apologise for the word "rubbish". I think we are talking about different things in some respects. Education is about learning about various academic subjects, science, history, maths, language, literacy, culture, politics etc etc etc and this aspect of learning is sedentary. This sort of education opens minds, opens doors, fires imagination, helps children make sense of the world around them, and have more control, creates opportunities, helps with communication with others and also developing self concept and teaches skills to allow children to know their passions and follow their passions.

Though most of this is sedentary and can be complimented by time spent learning and playing sport, travelling, visiting new places.

I would agree with you that most schools don't provide this or anything like.

I don't agree that education isn't for the vast majority of boys and girls though. And I don't think any boys should just be seen as hunter gatherers.

Edited

I disagree that that is the definition of education. Yes it has been defined as such by the powers that be but the issue with it being singularly academic is that it is at the expense of other life skills.

This leads to a narrow definition of success which circles us back to the topic of this thread which is that many men and boys feel failures before they’ve even begun in life.

All of what you say education is has value, of course, but there are SO many more ways to fire imaginations, develop skills and helps kids make sense of the world around them etc.

Goldenbear · 19/03/2025 22:35

Ritzybitzy · 19/03/2025 22:29

Perhaps it’s because people are rightly irritated with your misogynistic comment.

It isn't mysoginy, it's highlighting an issue that exults the trad lifestyle, this is a massive part of the problem, that we aren't allowed to identify why we have got to a place of roles for men and roles for women. The main reason I used this anecdata was to disabuse people of the belief that private schools are a haven for the progressives, they are not!

Newmumhere40 · 19/03/2025 22:49

Justapunta · 19/03/2025 14:49

My sister is a teacher at my children’s’ secondary private school (with children there herself) said very very little in her experience resonated with adolescence. She has taught at two private schools only

Private schools....of course her experience doesn't resonate!

Worryworrierworrying · 19/03/2025 23:08

Justapunta · 19/03/2025 14:56

Depressing

My brother who teaches in inner city high school says the same - most accurate and basically a holding pen