To wonder if all those gleeful about PIP cuts are going to welcome people with serious mental health conditions as colleagues and employees?

[Somethingthecatdraggedin7]

Given the amount of ableisism I see on MN I think the likelihood of people welcoming people with serious mental health conditions into their workplace is pretty low.
And yes, these people will very likely now be forced to try to work even though their condition makes it impossible. We are not just talking about some lazy twenty year old who expects to sit at home gaming due to his “anxiety” as many people seem to believe is the case. It will be people with significant impairments to social functioning.
Even if they get support to apply for jobs, and even if they then get the position (doubtful) how accommodating will colleagues or customers be if the person seems a bit odd, or gets adjustments workmates deem unfair?
This is going to be a total shit show.

As you see in the attached, fewer millionaires being created in the UK compared to other countries.

There is no magic money tree

Sorry to bore you but the tax justice UK are cranks and this is BS. Go ahead. do it, tax anyone with anything as much as you can and see what happens. I'm so sick of the constant narrative about rich people and multinationals not paying enough - if it was so bloody easy then it would be done. It isn't because firstly it is not that easy and secondly people will leave rather than pay.

What Covid did was highlight just how vulnerable the UK is, we suffered disproportionately as a population because we'd run down the NHS, increased inequality and pushed more people into poverty. Instead of addressing those issue we've reinforced them.

Also PIP and DLP are not means tested, this is ridiculous. If there isn’t an economic requirement for this benefit they shouldn’t be granted.

There is a whole generation of young people who have never worked due to anxiety or poor mental health.
this can not carry on being funded!
They need help and just paying them to stay in their bedroom is ridiculous.

They’ll also be the ones wiping out arses one day so I’d like a few of them at least to be in work and support the ageing population

No -we opened the borders to people who would vote Labour. Thanks to Tony BLiar and the utterly incompetent Gordon Brown.

Very little tax revenue is lost from large companies due to non payment according to HMRC. Tax avoidance is legally structuring your affairs to pay less tax (like paying into a pension). It’s entirely legal. Any aggressive or unacceptable tax planning is already prohibited.

The idea that there are big companies which are just not paying their taxes is nonsense. There are no easy answers here. If you don’t want to cut the rising costs of benefits, people who are not really that well off need to pay more. So do small businesses (who HMRC assess don’t pay what they should).

The OP has posted in AIBU? You know, the bit of Mumsnet where people ask for an opinion and others give their opinion? Having a contradictory opinion doesn’t mean someone is trying to ‘derail’ a thread.
AIBU? Is not an echo chamber.

Absolutely. I used to work in international tax and it’s incredibly complex and there is a huge focus from HMRC to collect as much tax as possible from wealthy individuals and large corporations (mainly because the returns are big if they focus their best people there). The idea there is some evil conspiracy and the government is just not trying to collect tax from the rich is bonkers.

So what you're saying is I'm allowed to share my opinion of thread derailers, too?Cool! Good to know I have your permission to share my opinion. 👍

IT used to be a very diverse and tolerant industry, it's what drew me to it in the first place. Sadly no longer true - I often wonder where some of my former colleagues would find work now - the answer is nowhere, probably.

Apart from 1962-1973, businesses and public services have always had easy access to workers from other countries. Post 1949 we were the most open we've ever been in the modern era and that led us to turning round an economy much worse than we have now, creating the NHS, housing millions, guranteeing an education etc. Even Enoch Powell was begging India and Pakistan to send their Drs and nurses.

What Blair did was to follow Thatcher's freemarket zealotry and open the way to the gutting of the NHS.

We haven't even had British citizenship as a thing until 1981.

The problem is that a lot of people refuse take personal responsibility - they don’t try to problem solve and assume the state will provide a solution which makes them reliant on handouts

Because an adapted car costs significantly more.

@differentstarts only 10% of the motability fleet has adaptations. Most people using pip for a car do not have adaptations.

Not sure how long it will last because the off sick colleague will likely face performance management, possibly resulting in dismissal, depending on how often they are off sick.

I think in other countries people turn to family first before seeing themselves as an individual entitled to x,y,z from the state.

Are those countries as atomised as our families are?

So, were you part of the task force Osborne put together to go after corporate tax evasion? Because my sister in law was, and apart from lots of trips to Brussels to keep them busy, they were never allowed to actually do that job.

Did the BBC amongst their programmes of " Saints & Scrounger" "can't pays we'll take it away" etc, ever do a "Corporate bastards who pay no tax" episode?

The HMRC work to rules set in place by government, it doesn't take much to work out in whose interests our governments are working for, they don't leave office and go to work in a soup kitchen do they, no they sit on the boards of ftse 100 companies.

What people are you talking about people with schizophrenia that struggle with any added stress in their life and it impacts their mental health or people who have low level anxiety and bouts of depression that are not always able to work (which many people do suffer from) having purpose, having a routine, having structure often is more often than not very beneficial in such cases but people do need support to get into work

there is no suggestion that this is going to impact those with life long serious mh issues, its being proposed rather than having to reassess them every few years (which is stressful and an unnecessary worry) that there will be a lifetime assessment (assuming with some for of contact with PIP but not having to go through the stress of being reassessed)

I suppose those of us who have influence of these sorts of things need to consider to we have a mental health policy at work, do we know the early signs of stress and how to manage it, have we hot stress risk assessments in place, have we got risk assessment for particular employees (eg one with known psychotic episodes, or suicide ideation or violent meltdowns) have we got staff rooms that allo deregulation, do we have evacuation procedures (just thinking how schools handle stuff)
Do we have helplines, websites, mental health champions.

Lots to prepare.

You clearly don't have a clue what you are talking about. The coalition and conservative governments that GO was chancellor for brought in more tax increases and anti-avoidance than had been implemented in the previous 50+ years. There is little or no tax avoidance in corporation tax anymore due to the high levels of anti-avoidance legislation and international cooperation (OECD). I don't know what your SIL did but she obviously didn't work in tax or she wouldn't be coming out with such BS.
The irony of your comments is that they are as ignorant as people saying everyone on benefits is just lazy and sitting on their arse i.e. you have no clue what you're talking about.

Very, very true. If people suffering with Mental Health issues, (and there are lots of people with lots of different MH conditions with lots of issues causing the MH problems) could have someone like you in the system willing to actually listen to them, then in some instances - not all - the said people would suffer less and maybe feel valued instead of feeling or made to feel like a pain, or a drain on the public purse and even sometimes a burden to the family as well as society in general. I am not saying this of everyone who works in MH background, but some should not be in this type of work as they have no understanding of the issues and effects that some people deal with daily and some have even less interest or compassion. I have experience as a person who who has worked with people with severe MH and LD issues and also have experinece as a sufferer of MH issues. If you don't work in this field then you should consider it. Empathy and sometimes sympathy (sympathy is not always wanted or always appropriate) go a long way in making people feel better about themselves and their situation. If NHS could offer people waiting for some form of MH treatment some hope that they won't have to wait for years, there could be less people going into Psychosis, committing suicide or just isolating themselves from the rest of the population. Sorry if I sound preachy.

George Osborne's family business didn't pay a penny in corporation tax for the 7 years leading up to 2016 and he cut the corporate tax rate.

The task force he appointed to implement his policies simply didn't, they were all relocated elsewhere after collecting nothing extra.

His tax and benefits changes led to the poorest losing on average £460 a year and the richest gaining £670.

According to the OBR no referrals had been made to the Government’s heralded “general anti-abuse rule”

It also noted that "Tax repatriation from the tax havens of the Isle of Man, Jersey, and Gurnsey, as well as changes to tax credit calculations had fallen short of expectations. Some HMRC compliance measures were also not bringing in expected revenue." Leaving a tax gap of £34 billion.

It's a nonsense to claim the system isn't rigged in favour of the wealthy, from income tax and capital gains to over a thousand different tax relief schemes that favour the rich. Even Nigel Lawson accepted that unearned and earned income has the same purchasing power and should be taxed the same.

I have a serious mental health condition, diagnosed around 20 years ago now. During that 20 years I’ve had a number of significant episodes and protracted periods of being unable to work. My colleagues (when I had colleagues) were nothing other than supportive at the time. As I would be if a colleague had a serious mental illness and became unwell. I’m not sure what exactly this “shit show” you imagine is going to be. There are many many people out there who are not, and will not ever be, able to work.
There are however many people with serious mental health diagnoses who are more than capable of working and should be supported to do so.