To be really cross about the proposed cuts?

[Byjimminy]

And feel really effing sorry for those with genuine anxiety and depression - it is disabling!

Already seeing threads in MH with people despairing in anticipation of cuts. As if mental health services haven't already been decimated beyond recognition already. GP appointments as rare as hen's teeth, CAMHS and access to decent therapy is next to non-existent, the conservatiives slashed all the support workers and sure start centres and we've had the worst pandemic in decades (centuries?) - long covid is thing too! And now people are just self diagnosing/making up mental health issues? How the hell anyone believes anyone manages to claim PIP without a proper diagnosis is insanity itself.

I completely agree with this article: https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/wes-streeting-overdiagnosis-mental-health-adhd-b2716618.html

I know there will be umpteen threads on this already, but maybe some others like me just want to let stuff out in frustration and have a fresh place to say it. To think this is a labour government making these decisions BEFORE putting the services in place to actually help and treat people is beyond comprehension.

Why there is such massive increase in PIP claims? Because it pays much more than UC only.
No, PIP is lower than the combination of regular UC elements (unemployment and housing). There is an increase in PIP claims mostly due to the fact our NHS has been and is being relentlessly defunded resulting in worsening health at the population level. The second largest factor in the increase in PIP claims is the increase in pension age from 60 to 67 so you have these older people now considered working age who are developing disabilities. The #1 risk factor for disability is age.

UC increase partially removes this incentive.
Incentive for what? To amputate a body part? Get cancer? Get an head injury? Have heart failure? Invent a Time Machine and make sure you are born with autism? blind/deaf? cerebral palsy? ADHD? Downs?

The rhetoric acts like people can just choose or say I have this or that medical condition and BAM! Here’s your PIP, here’s a higher UC for you. That isn’t the reality of applying for ESAto qualify for the health element of UC or for PIP.

I am listing examples where people currently on PIP are scoring less than 4pts in daily living activities and as a result will lose their PIP. These examples are also linked to extra costs. Your assertion that the way they are raising the threshold of PIP will not exclude anyone that has extra costs is entirely incorrect.

you said “So making it harder to get means those that have those expenses will still get them..”

There will be many disabled who have extra costs caused by their disabilities that will lose PIP. All it takes is looking at what gets you 1-3pts for each activity and the costs associated with the extra help to do each activity as a result.

It is very hypocritical as the government has said giving the disabled less money means they will get a job but giving the abled more money means they will get a job,

So the disabled get the stick
while the abled get the carrot

But we are expected to not notice this discriminatory ableist treatment of the most vulnerable?

As an aside : The inability to chop veg does not mean people have to go to the extra expense of buying prechopped. Frozen food is just ( if not more than given recent research ) healthy and cheaper.

A person whose hands can’t chop veg isn’t going to be able to break apart frozen veg into single meal portions either. Too often disability means you need the more expensive option.

The government is increasing the out of work UC benefits for the completely healthy. So that is the exact opposite of “welfare should only go to those in the most need & unable to work”.

The benefits paid to a single adult with no dependents currently sit below destitution levels, not just poverty levels. There’s absolutely no dignity in destitution and finding work from that place is incredibly difficult.

Increasing out of work benefits may actually increase the capacity for claimants to find work because they aren’t scrabbling to have their most basic needs met. It’s psychology 101, you meet people’s survival needs which enables them to meet their higher needs, including gainful employment.

That’s what they are doing
I agree it seems a strange way of doing things

Im guessing they think if they give people more money they then have them in the system to get them into work. 🤷‍♀️

forgot to tag @LadyKenya

I think everyone has noticed this.
I agree the severely disabled should be cared for. That’s the point of the welfare state
It’s a case of
Can the country afford to pay for so many claiming
It seems not in such great numbers
currently or
going forward.

So yes the severely disabled will be hit the hardest by this green paper because too many are claiming the benefit. The Govn need to work out who to support and who can support themselves.

One thing that really concerns me is that plenty of disabled people could work but only part-time. The system won't recognise this (as they will not qualify for disability related top ups so on paper will be seen as not disabled). So despite doing their best to work many will still be living in poverty. There needs to be a sort of halfway house, a recognition of this where one is expected to work but a suitable amount and income top ups available.

Presumably if the effects of disability aren't recognised this means the person won't qualify for any extra support in finding or keeping work either. Sanctions may be applied if their health takes a dip and they can't keep up the work commitments for UC that week.

That is my worry too.
If you work and have a big chuck of time off then you ususally go back on a phased return.
If you have been out of the job market for a long time, will the Job Centre let you do a phased amount of work commitments? I doubt it

I have checked my privilege thank you and with significant ND and MH in my immediate family, we still claim no PIP or other disability benefits. We instead work long hours and pay our own way in society and do not expect the state to support us when we get earn the money ourselves.

Is that always easy? No.
Do I always want to go to work? No
Am I often out off my comfort zone at work? Yes
Do I sometimes challenges in work because of my ND? Yes
Did I put my children in nursery when they were 12 months old so I could return to work, albeit part time? Yes
Do I do all of the cooking at home because my DH doesn’t like / can’t cook? Yes
Do I have time to indulge my MH with fitness classes, ‘me time’, endless day trips to free museums in my motability car because I work and do not live off the state? No

etc etc

The facts are the UK government cannot afford to subsidise the lifestyles of many people who could actually work and support themselves if they had too, just like I do.

But supporting myself means I am sometimes out of my comfort zone.

People with real disabilities that absolutely stop them from working should be supported to a higher level than current, but that will not happen because of the significant number of people claiming who, whilst I am not saying don’t have any additional challenges, take the easier route of claiming benefits.

The irony of this thread is it actually making me feel rather foolish that we haven’t claimed additional financial support in the form of benefits over the past 30 years. We would have easily qualified. The ‘free’ money would have been saved for our children to help them through Uni as we didn’t need it as we were both working. Yes we have ND challenges, but as others have said, overcoming those challenges can also benefit your MH.

@JobhuntingDespair

I do understand completely what you're saying about ND. We're ND family, I feel the same, I've just had another meltdown from my exceptionally bright ND DC doing their school homework. It's hard, but needs must. Apart from most severe cases this still doesn't require PIP though.

The poster who said she likes sewing but can't sew and gets help with cleaning and gardening. She didn't mention any physical disability, I believe she would if she had some. Why can't she clean her own place at least? I get it - it's dead boring, I hate it above any other chore. The thought of cleaning takes all joy from my weekends. It's physically difficult for me now as I get older. But does it mean I can't do this? no, it's just takes a lot of physical and mental effort from me, and yes, my life would be so much better if someone else did it for me, but should it be taxpayer funded?

As I said many times before - there are truly horrific life circumstances and profound disabilities which consumes lives of some families, they absolutely do require support, but I can't believe for a moment that they are so heavily concentrated in the UK. This is high time to review this area.

Exactly this. All the extras my DC and me could have all this time, why was I bursting my guts instead??

It is family who help clean my home and keep my garden tidy. I do not pay someone to do that. I really struggle with executive function and my standard of what is clean or not is a lot lower than most peoples. I am ok being surrounded by rubbish and dust. I can not give it the headspace it needs. It just does not register as something that needs doing. If that makes sense.
Yes I am disgusting.

The government is increasing the out of work UC benefits for the completely healthy.

• by £7 per week, oh wow this will make a huge difference (sarcasm).

There are less jobs available than there are people with job search obligations claiming benefits. 816,000 vacancies, 1.78 million people required to job search.

We’ve been busting our guts too.
I have few friends and no hobbies. I know that isn’t ideal but with having ND challenges (which make me inefficient), working and having children and elderly parents to care for something had to give, and it was things for me that ‘gave’. I used to be sporty and play team sports. I do miss them, but chose to focus on my family and supporting them. I manage on very little sleep.

I might not be out for dinner /drinks every week with friends, but I have an amazing family and successful career. I cook for my family daily, as although I don’t enjoy or am particularly good at cooking, I want them to eat well and I enjoy our time sitting and eating together. My DH ‘can’t’ cook and has no interest in trying too. So I persevere.

To ‘keep on top of everything’ appears to take me significantly more effort than others, because I am not very efficient. I procrastinate to extremes. I get distracted. That said, I keep the communal areas in my house clean by employing a cleaner. It has taken me a long time to come to terms with who I am, and e.g. that it is ok that my office is messy. That is who I am.

So what am I trying to say? Life can be more challenging if ND and is certainly not always easy. There are some aspects that extra money can help alleviate. But if you are not working and have all day to clean your house / prepare food, why should the government/tax payer fund this because the ND person doesn’t want to do it? I don’t think they should.

So about £30 a month? That’s a few days of food. I wouldn’t say it’s ‘nothing’. But then I regularly see people on benefits think of hundreds of pounds as ‘peanuts’ so..

But what if your rent is £200 above the LHA rate? £30 isn't going to go far;, it's not necessarily about food. Rent comes first before anything, including food.

There's really no point arguing. We're all f*ked. I give up

The poster who said she likes sewing but can't sew and gets help with cleaning and gardening. She didn't mention any physical disability, I believe she would if she had some. Why can't she clean her own place at least?

I see that the recipient of that post has already answered why she has difficulties in cleaning, but I fail to see why a random poster would be so bold as to ask in the first place. Disabled people should not have to justify online, their lives,or anything else. If using PIP to pay for a cleaner helps them, that is perfectly fine imo.

Because they are hiding behind a a keyboard and have no idea, and probably dont care what impact such intrusive questioning and assumptions can have on people. I spent my whole life thinking I was lazy and a slob. I now have answers as to why I struggle with the stuff that most people find simple. It seems there are people on here determined to undo that for me and others on here that deal with the same issues.
The point about sewing has really annoyed me. I sew small toys as gifts for the people in my life. That does not mean I can make clothing. Making clothing well is very hard. I can put a ready meal in the microwave. Does that mean I can be a chef?

Exactly@WeylandYutani. Some posters would do well to remember that it is actual people they are conversing with, who have emotions, and feelings. Words have power, and who knows how a person could be affected by some of the things that have been written on this thread.

Many of us who scored 2 points on activities still have costs though

Alternatively if I lose my pip, it'll force social services to provide care for me costing more than what I currently pay my mum

But I'll still have other expenses too. You're not asked about what you spend your pip on. Just because you score 2 points on activities doesn't mean you have no costs

It seems the ‘new’ system will expect anyone scoring a 2 to have to meet those costs themselves.
I haven’t seen anything on this though in the green paper
It seems if you don’t qualify…..you don’t qualify.

Have you read anything else Tiger that states Social Services will provide care for those who score 2 or even 3 ?