To think we urgently need graduated licences for newly qualified drivers?

[Cherryann]

Have just read of the tragic, terrible deaths of 3 beautiful teenagers, killed by their 17 year old friend’s dangerous driving, just 5 weeks after he’d passed his test - I am so horrified that our uncaring government is refusing to introduce restrictions on new teen drivers. For instance, restrictions preventing them from carrying passengers for a certain period, or driving in the dark, or carrying more than a certain number of passengers, or carrying passengers of their own age or younger.
Other countries do this, including New Zealand, Australia & Ireland! Why can’t we?
How many more teenagers will need to die such pointless awful deaths? How many bereaved parents?
Yes graduated licences will restrict teen freedoms- but so do restrictions on drug & alcohol use. There are good reasons why we have different rules for different ages & different degrees of knowledge & experience.
So, AIBU to think we urgently need graduated licences for newly qualified young drivers?

I agree, I have said for years that young/new drivers (under 21) should not be allowed to carry passengers under 21. I’d maybe put in conditions like no more than one under 21 year old or unless there is an older person in the car with them. So that allows for giving siblings or one friend lifts and allows the young driver to drive family.
I’d also limit it to boys because in my experience young girls are far more sensible drivers but that wouldn’t be allowed!

Totally agree. It’s not practical to expect parents to try to put restrictions on a Newley qualified 18 or 19 year old… they’re adults!
Many places have restrictions, particularly around driving passengers.
There’s a reason that insurance is so eye wateringly expensive for the under 21’s or even under 25’s

Agree it would be a useful tool while they are getting some experience on the road. I’m not sure how easy to enforce it would be?

I think there is that particularly dangerous age when kids and their friends are 17 or younger so they can’t access a lot of adult venues or have places to go as they still live at home so they socialise in cars.

Thinking back to that age I got in cars with people not knowing if they were good drivers or not or under the influence. It scares me thinking about my own teens safety. Most of their friends seem sensible but you never know and it could be friends of friends… One thing I have always stressed to them though is always to wear seatbelts.

It’s one if the reasons we chose not to bring our family up rurally. Every school year someone died this way where I grew up. My teens walk or get Ubers back from their nights out not driven home by pissed 17 year olds like I was.

I agree with this, although would add it isn't just kids who live rurally.

A ban on driving after a certain time (10pm?) would make more sense, but would affect those in rural areas much more than those in towns

We live in a big City, and my dc still had shifts (as lifeguards) that started before it got light in the morning, and finished after it went dark in the evening. Plus later jobs in hospitality, fast food, and retail. Plus the one who works shifts as a student Nurse.

This will just punish the law abiding and careful, because they will follow the rules and now not be able to share lifts to college (which, from my teen friendship group alone would have put 6 more cars on the road every morning and afternoon) and of the 9 I'm still in regular contact with 6 and, not one of us, even 20 years later, have had points on our licences or had anything beyond small maneuvering type scrapes, and even then that's not all of us. We were lift sharing 3 or 4 to a car on a rota from as soon as we passed. We also drove to France for a holiday, 4 of us in a Fiesta, at 18. Got the Ferry and everything, all was fine. We wouldn't be able to get Saturday to jobs that finish at 10/11/midnight

What it won't punish is the ones who don't follow the rules we already have and end up crashing. Drunk driving, drug driving, not wearing seatbelts, speeding.

We need to really deal with those who are not up to standard, not just tar everyone with the same brush as the lowest driving ability. It's not a race to the bottom.

@JarvisIsland Exactly. It would mainly inconvenience the law-abiding. The reckless drivers would just ignore it, like they ignore the existing laws.

And as always, the decision would be made from behind a desk in Whitehall, by somebody who does not have to worry about many of the realities of travelling, because someone else manages it for them (and the taxpayer pays for it).

OK how about a scheme were from passing your test until 21 you cannot have passengers in the car who are under 21.

BUT if you have a reason to have passengers such as for work or living rurally you could apply for a local permit to allow passengers.

Something similar to the CBT you take when learning to ride a motorbike, it takes a full day.

Something similar, a whole day to get a permit to carry younger passengers, but learning about the effects of drug driving, speeding and everything else that has been mentioned here.

But you can still only drive in a set area.

I’m in Australia but can only speak for one State, as road stuff is State/Territory based. We have new license graduated restrictions. It’s a 3 tier system after passing to get your full license. Restricted 1, Restricted 2 and then Unrestricted. If you are on a restricted license, you have to display plates with your level restriction and are bound by the rules of that restriction. They are all pretty sensible rules and don’t preclude young people being able to travel after dark but things such as not carrying passengers under 25yo with you after dark, being speed restricted, zero blood alcohol allowance. Supposedly the stats are that young road deaths declined after restrictions were in place. As a parent of kids who went through learning, young drivers etc, I was in no way unhappy with the system, thought it very sensible.

Young (particularly male drivers) under 25 are
hugely disproportionately responsible for car accidents. I don’t know why anyone feels the need to argue with actual facts and statistics particularly when it comes to lives of young people but apparently being ‘right’ on Mumsnet is more important.

I could spend all day posting links to the evidence. Here’s just one of them.

’Young male car drivers aged 17 to 24 are 4 times as likely to be killed or seriously injured compared with all car drivers aged 25 or over.’

www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casualties-great-britain-older-and-younger-driver-factsheets-2022/reported-road-casualties-in-great-britain-younger-driver-factsheet-2022

Compulsory black box insurance for 5 years would instil best driving practice.

Given that all cars are now being fitted with 'black boxes' possibly a requirement in a few years to restrict new drivers to 'black box' fitted cars?

I agree with graduated licences for young drivers but I cannot agree with the bit about restricting them from driving in the dark. That’s 3:30pm sometimes, a good amount of learners will be having lessons in the dark over winter. It seems like an odd restriction to place on a licence holder.

one of mine passed their test at 17, had a car almost immediately but we placed a few rules ourselves about how far she should go out of our town at night and only one passenger at a time. I also made it clear if she wasn’t happy for any reason just to stop the car where she was and call me. No explanation needed but I would come and get her and friend and take them both home. Peer pressure really concerned me so I always offered an ‘out’ - not just when driving, for anything. I collect first then we talk later.

Of course, I just meant it's an absolute issue without exception here. Absolutely understand others would get caught up in it.

Can you imagine how absurd it would be for your kids? They all have jobs that involve serious responsibilities for others, potentially life & death, and yet wouldn't be able to drive themselves home?

That’s really not an excuse. Good drivers take into account the condition of the road.

22 year old totalled his Mercedes and 2 fences (across a community path here) at around 9:30pm recently. Excuses proffered by the community on a police post asking for “any dashcam footage of the manner of driving prior to the incident” to be shared:

He wasn’t local and wouldn’t have known the road. (It’s a purpose built bypass on a disused railway line, so almost perfectly flat and straight.)
The road is very dark. (The areas around 4 roundabouts are lit at night - he went off the road underneath one of them.)
Maybe there was something wrong with his car. (Maybe, but he was on a 20mph section (approaching a NSL section), coming off a roundabout but somehow had enough force to climb a bank, go through 2 wooden fences and bend a metal farm gate in half. There is very clearly a significant element of driver error here.)

He clearly booted it off the roundabout (from a speed higher than the signposted 20mph), lost control, hit the kitty litter and the rest is just physics. But apparently it’s “unkind” to a “young kid” who hurt himself. 🤷🏻‍♀️

If its unkind to a kid its even 'unkinder' to anyone he hurts or kills.

What I would like to see is some sort of 'non criminal' route for taking peoples licences away ie we cant prove your driving was so bad that we will fine you but its pretty obvious you were a prat, here's a bus timetable

I don't think anyone is disputing the fact but you seem to not be differentiating between the deaths and serious injuries caused by young male drivers who are driving legitimately, within the law, having bought their insurance, and driving a roadworthy car, and driving without any mind altering substances in their bodies, and those who already have complete disregard for the law and do drive under the influence of drink or more likely drugs, who do drive without insurance, who do drive unworthy cars. So would actually have no regard for any new laws either.
Take all the accidents, collisions, deaths, caused by kids joy-riding, kids stealing cars, kids who think it is okay to drive at double the speed limit, and the figures would look very different.
Bringing in another law all those idiots choose to ignore won't clip their wings, but it would severely limit all the thousands of youngsters who don't cause these accidents.

As a family we are just recovering from the impact of an horrendous incident where a new driver decided to show off to his friends, did a dangerous manoeuvre and ploughed into my husband and daughter who were on a motorbike. The driver had 2 young friends in the back. He had no regard or thought for them, or my family and obviously believed himself invincible. My husband suffered serious injuries which we are still adjusting to. I still suffer flashbacks as to what I saw when I arrived at the scene. No one was killed but the sight of my family lying in the road and the faces of the drivers traumatised passengers will stay with me a long time I think.

I think we need protests outside the homes of dangerous drivers just to get the message over

I actually think all learner drivers should have to spend some time on a motorbike. Obviously not if they have a disability that would prevent that but I do think riding gives you a different experience.

I hope your recovery (as a family) continues, and that the physical damage to your husband is not permanent.

Unfortunately there is no way to differentiate between the two. The fact is that they are FOUR more times likely to be killed or injured. It’s devastating to see the effects of this. I’ve had 3 students die in the past 5 years in crashes. Another is still in a coma.

My 17 year old is allowed 2 passengers at a time and has a black box. This is no way ‘severely limits’ them but it does severely limit the damage they could potentially do being a young and inexperienced driver.

Most things in life I can almost always see both sides of. Those arguing against more restrictions on young people’s driving just totally befuddles me. There’s just no coherent argument against moderate restrictions on them which would undoubtedly save lives.

I was a little more strict with my daughter both sides. Never accept a lift with a large group and new driver - she has uber and could call us anytime!
When she got her licence no late late night driving - she was working so would drive home at 9/10 which was fine. Same with offering lift etc in the first few months - it amazed me how many times she would get calls for people asking for lifts!

I don’t know what the answers is, black box helps but doesn’t stop a car full of teenagers! It can’t restrict fully as I said my daughter shifts sometimes didn’t finish till 10pm and some started at 6am.

I would suggest that there are several issues but ultimately they boil down to enforcement.

Under the last Government we lost 20000 Police Officers, the Court system has become backlogged and the Prisons are massively overcrowded.

Non Police law enforcement - HMRC, Local Authorities etc has also been cut.

As a result our roads are becoming free for those who want to use them as race tracks.

When we get basic traffic enforcement sorted AND judges stop being supine and take drivers licences away for good - and take away the liberty of those who behave like fools on the roads then we might see a drop in road deaths.

Thank you so much. Life has changed dramatically and he struggles day to day with certain issues but doing well. Driver got 2 years prison. Its all very sad, but we count our blessings! Thank you for your good wishes