To think we urgently need graduated licences for newly qualified drivers?

[Cherryann]

Have just read of the tragic, terrible deaths of 3 beautiful teenagers, killed by their 17 year old friend’s dangerous driving, just 5 weeks after he’d passed his test - I am so horrified that our uncaring government is refusing to introduce restrictions on new teen drivers. For instance, restrictions preventing them from carrying passengers for a certain period, or driving in the dark, or carrying more than a certain number of passengers, or carrying passengers of their own age or younger.
Other countries do this, including New Zealand, Australia & Ireland! Why can’t we?
How many more teenagers will need to die such pointless awful deaths? How many bereaved parents?
Yes graduated licences will restrict teen freedoms- but so do restrictions on drug & alcohol use. There are good reasons why we have different rules for different ages & different degrees of knowledge & experience.
So, AIBU to think we urgently need graduated licences for newly qualified young drivers?

I think modern cars will sort this out. Just pop it onto safe mode so the car is restricted, they'll be wired up to know a dangerous speed along certain roads and automatically limit it etc.

i thought this was the case, that they couldnt give lifts, obviously not, but it is a good idea

YANBU. I was surprised to learn, when my DD reached driving age, 5 years ago, that there were no restrictions and P plates are voluntary. I remember P plates being talked about years ago and had assumed they were mandatory and imposed some restrictions.

My daughters car has a black box in it, I’ve also taken her out in her car a lot to ensure she is familiar with it and while we have had some control over what car she has as a first car. There was no way I was just going to pay for driving lessons and then at 17/18yrs let her buy a car she was unfamiliar with that we had say over and let her lose on the roads.

I’m not sure why not driving at night would improve things as it’s actually easier to see in the dark - I definetly found taking her on the dual carriage way at night easier. Also, as for passengers. Well I’ve been sat next to her for months so was rather hoping she’d take me out for lunch one day.

there was a thread on here recently about a young newly qualified girl determined to make a 7 hour each way trip on the motorway. The journey back to carry her brother and his friends home from uni. The mother seemed powerless to stop her and other posters were encouraging her to let her be independent. So it seems not.

I live in a rural county. Kids can live quite far from school. Many parents had their kids learning to drive off public roads before they turned 17. Then they'd have double driving lessons per week and pass their test 3-4 months after they turned 17. Then they would be driving country roads to school, with their friends as passengers.

IMO that's too little experience of the roads and different weather conditions.

Dd16 went with to stay with her best friends American extended family so experienced their teen life. The thing that struck her most was that the 16 year olds could all drive but they all - especially the boys - took that very very seriously. Drove carefully and slowly would not touch a drop of alcohol if driving and they were a “party set” of kids. Plus their roads way easier than ours.

A no passenger rule is not necessarily a good idea.

For example, a new young driver going on a long-ish journey might benefit from a parent or other experienced driver as a companion for encouragement or to share the driving to prevent fatigue.

If, when I had passed at 30, I had been prevented from driving my husband and son, I would hardly have driven for the duration of the no-passenger rule. At the point of being allowed to drive them I’d have very little extra experience and my lessons would have been a long time ago, which would have improved safety not one jot.

I would definitely support compulsory black boxes for 3 years.

i thought it was no passenger under 21

It doesn't have to be, have a look at motorbike licences.
In my lifetime things have changed.

You used to be able to buy a motorbike and ride it on 'L' plates. You could also carry a pillion passenger if they had a full licence.

Then they brought in compulsory basic training (CBT).

At 16 you can only ride a moped, then there are various tests that you can only do after a number of years. If you do not take a practical test you lose your licence after 2 years.

At 17 you can ride a 125, at 19 you can ride a bigger bike but you need another test first.

At 21 you can get an unrestricted licence if you have gone through the graduated route, if you are 24 or older you can do a course to get your full A licence.

An upshot of these restrictions is that manufacturers now produce bikes for people riding on A1 and A2 licences.

If we did similar with car licences initially it would not be fare on 17 year olds who only have access to the shared family car but after a few years there would be a market for cars with small engines.

A family member who is 18 is hoping to pass his test this week and I’m secretly hoping he fails. This person has smoked weed and drank alcohol for years, has an electric bike which he’s already a nuisance on and has crashed, requiring an ambulance for his friend who was on the back 🙄 but his parents will continue to pander to him and buy him a car. I’m sure it will end in tears.

I think a law banning passengers who are also teenagers, for a period of time is a good idea. Not so sure about restricting driving in the dark. Some teens live in rural locations with no (or rubbish) public transport- their car enables them to go to work. In the uk , it can be dark by 530pm in winter! When my ds passed his test, I didn't want him having other teenagers as passengers for the first six months. He agreed to this. He also wasn't ' allowed' to be a passenger with a new teen driver. So whilst I'd welcome a law on passengers, I also think we, as parents have a responsibility.

Obviously the poor, inexperienced driving is the main factor, but a recent news item said the reason why so many of these young men are dying now rather than just injured is because it’s custom now with young people not to wear seatbelts as passengers in the back. So when there is an accident the driver is more protected but the passengers die because of being thrown out the car. Possibly taking the front passenger with them.

This person has smoked weed and drank alcohol for years, has an electric bike which he’s already a nuisance on and has crashed, requiring an ambulance for his friend who was on the back

Is he being prosecuted for that? He should be banned from getting his licence for a period of time.

Teenage boys (it usually is boys) on e-bikes and e-scooters are a menace to themselves and other road users.

@MissRoseDurward No, there was no police involvement at all.

It is a big part.

Very few teenagers can afford to drive without the wallet of mum and dad.

It was obvious as soon as they passed their tests which ones of ds's classmates would have accidents, and they did. It would be the ones who already had behaviour issue due to immaturity, the ones who would obviously use their cars to play with their other cool friends, didn't have black boxes, parents bought cars with sports trim/styling, fronted their insurance so they could get a bigger engine, let them out in parents bigger engine cars etc.

It wasn't the ones in the boring insurance group 0 cars.

All under the control of most parents.

I think regarding driving in the dark learners should at least have to have some lessons in the dark, my daughter passed her test and I hadn’t gave it a second thought until she drove for the first time in the dark on her own. When Ds had lessons I made sure some of his lessons were in the evening.

I suggest that we need a clear message both from 'The Law' and society as a whole about irresponsible driving behaviour.

To draw an obvious analogy, why dont we treat bad driving in the same way we treat illegal firearms? If you play the fool with a car - and survive go straight to jail do not pass go do not collect £200.

The comment from another poster about her daughters experiences in the US was illuminating and how it should be here.

What about 'on the spot' bans for drink and drug drivers as a starter?

A ban on driving in the dark makes no sense in the UK, given how early it gets dark in the winter (and I’m in the south of England: it must get dark a lot earlier in the north and Scotland).

A ban on driving after a certain time (10pm?) would make more sense, but would affect those in rural areas much more than those in towns.

Obviously there is not much that anyone can do to prevent the more extreme cases (eg racing) but parents have to take more responsibility, and that includes being prepared to give teenagers lifts, including bringing them back from parties late at night.

I also agree with @WeAllHaveWingsabout the role of parents in limiting their teens’ access to bigger and faster cars.

First off, my comment that if the poor state of the roads were fixed, then maybe newbie drivers wouldn’t fall off so often isn’t saying that potholes are 100% responsible for all road deaths.

Secondly, while I appreciate I have struck a nerve, you really shouldn’t be stereotyping all new drivers and any passengers that are injured or die in an RTA as:
“going too fucking fast to show off to their friends and they’re dying, and destroying the lives of others, for it. Stop making excuses for the actions of at best, stupid brainless fools, or at worst, arrogant, pig-headed, killers.”

While there is a certain amount of drag racing and drink/drugs driving causing some deaths, it isn’t 100% of deaths. Just like poor roads are not 100% the cause either.

Here we have terrible bumpy and hole infested roads that have waterways on either side, flooding, black ice and fog to contend with. You often can’t tell the difference between a water filled deep pothole or a puddle on the roads. New drivers here are more likely to fall victim to the roads than being “stupid brainless fools” or “arrogant, pig-headed killers”. People slide off the road, into a ditch and drown every year here and nothing is done to fix the roads or make them safer because this is a deprived rural area.

Now, I hope you can appreciate these accidents don’t tend to make national news because no one is being prosecuted for causing death by reckless driving.

I have wondered if there should be some sort of syllabus all learners should be required to go through with an instructor including driving in the dark?

To which I might add driving a vehicle 'ballasted' to represent 3 large adults in the back.

Driving a Kia Ceed with a 1400cc conventionally aspirated engine over the A361 North Devon Link Road last year with 4 adults in it and maintaining 'road speed' was a challenging experience to say the least! Not in this case keeping it on the road but keeping the speed up uphill and down downhill.

Absolutely agree with this. Unless you live somewhere with no public transport after 6pm & on Sundays & where most young ppl jobs are in hospitality (unsociable hours) it's very easy to make these proclamations. Young ppl here (coastal Cornwall) HAVE to drive, it's not a luxury.

I agree with the sentiment though, OP, we (locally) had an incident resulting in a young man's death a few months ago. There is an issue with with male teens & driving but restrictions like these are not viable.

A better solution would be a government deal with the insurance companies for enforced black boxes that give proper reward/punishment for unsafe driving, not just small fluctuations in the cost of insurance. The difference should be good driving equals affordable insurance & bad driving makes it unaffordable - real consequences for something young drivers are absolutely in control of.

RTAs include the deaths of cyclists, motorcyclists and pedestrians.
Many of these deaths are not drivers or passengers with a teen driver. Many are schoolboys on push bikes or walking along roads being hit by mature adult drivers. A cyclist on the push bike is the road user at second highest risk of an RTA causing death (behind motorcyclists). Many parents give their teen a bicycle to go to/from school, friends houses, and even Saturday/PT jobs, thinking it is safe and they also can’t afford to pay bus fare and don’t have the time off work to be a taxi for their teens.

Things that are already illegal for a new driver -
speeding
street racing
drug driving
drunk driving

Things that should definitely not be illegal for a new driver -
driving yourself and your friend home from college at 5:30 on a winter afternoon

We live in a village with poor public transport so I'm really looking forward to hanging up my taxi driver hat when DS2 (hopefully) passes his driving test next month.

After 2020, I don't want the state meddling in the lives of law-abiding citizens even more than it does already. In a way, there is "a graduated licence" in that you lose your licence if you get 6 points in the first two years: that is only two speeding offences, or one offence of driving without insurance. Somebody who works in a court says that this happens all the time. Whether the drivers who get banned in this way drive anyway is another matter; I expect lots of them do, knowing that they won't be caught.

What we need is enforcement of the existing laws, and not going after the low-hanging fruit with parking fines: taking illegal drivers off the road, with life-changing fines (£200 fine for driving without insurance? Much cheaper than the insurance itself), and prison sentences; and yes, I know, prisons are full. The road is full of drivers with no licence at all, drivers with no insurance, pavement cyclists who have killed people and were fined less than the value of their bike, disqualified drivers who get a driving ban if they get caught, drivers who flee the police at high speeds (this should be a 10-year sentence in itself), 120mph motorway drivers.

Not yet more obstacles and stingers thrown in the way of law-abiding young people, who have been screwed over by Saint Boris and his merry men in far too many ways to count.