To think we urgently need graduated licences for newly qualified drivers?

[Cherryann]

Have just read of the tragic, terrible deaths of 3 beautiful teenagers, killed by their 17 year old friend’s dangerous driving, just 5 weeks after he’d passed his test - I am so horrified that our uncaring government is refusing to introduce restrictions on new teen drivers. For instance, restrictions preventing them from carrying passengers for a certain period, or driving in the dark, or carrying more than a certain number of passengers, or carrying passengers of their own age or younger.
Other countries do this, including New Zealand, Australia & Ireland! Why can’t we?
How many more teenagers will need to die such pointless awful deaths? How many bereaved parents?
Yes graduated licences will restrict teen freedoms- but so do restrictions on drug & alcohol use. There are good reasons why we have different rules for different ages & different degrees of knowledge & experience.
So, AIBU to think we urgently need graduated licences for newly qualified young drivers?

I think the astronomical cost of teen insurance on cars would suggest a very large number of teens sadly don’t drive sensibly 😬

Yes. We've had some terrible tragedies round our way.

My late husband was hit head on (but survived) when a young man driving his mum's car (while she was on holiday) decided to race his sister through the main street of the neighbouring village.

We frequently get overturned cars on country roads, often driven by a teenager showing off to his mates. A few years back, an entire carload was killed.

A young man of my acquaintance took part in a race at 3 o'clock in the morning. He didn't legislate for the lorry coming in the opposite direction.

He survived, albeit with a horrific scalp wound. His best friend wasn't so lucky.

Maybe some kind of curfew needs to be in place for new drivers?

Yes definitely some sort of ban on groups of young people together- there have been too many stories of groups of friends wiped out in a car due to the young person driving it.

I disagree with driving in the dark. I remember being 17/18 and finishing work late. I would hate to have walked home alone in the dark on account of not being allowed to drive. That would have felt more dangerous.

Sorry that should say I disagree with a ban on driving in the dark

Why is it always the fault of the Government? Whatever happened to personal responsibility? Are children no longer taught to consider others and realise that actions have consequences?

Maybe it would be better to raise the age at which licences are first issued, by which time these young adults would be more mature and more capable of better decision making.

I understand completely.

I'm trying to think of a compromise. Loss of licence for a new driver caught speeding in the dark?

I may be wrong but don’t you lose your licence if you are caught speeding the first year anyway? (Need to look it up!)

I think the main issue is having a car full of passengers, these incidents seem to happen day and night.

The roads are in a terrible state too. If they didn’t require advanced moon rover skills, then maybe newbie drivers wouldn’t be falling off them so often,

@WearyAuldWumman Each and every incident is a tragedy BUT I could go through the list of court cases locally over the last 6 months where someone has been killed or seriously injured by a driver, and the majority of these drivers are not teens.

There are idiots of all ages.

Anecdotally, the 3 worst RTCs I am aware of happening to people I know, one was caused by 2 drivers in their 40s racing each other in powerful cars; one by a professional driver (lorry driver) who obviously wasn't a teen either. The third by a bloke in his 60s who had chosen to get into his car, and speed down country roads, after consuming alcohol. I think the terribly sad cases of teens make much bigger news as there is something heart wrenching about losing a child. But I think the think that causes most of these terrible accidents isn't age, but it is arrogance.

@BananaNirvana I would expect new / less experienced drivers to have more bumps, through lack of experience, which will obviously impact insurance, but most of them aren't through wreck less or downright dangerous driving such as the incidents described.

I can't recall... I shall have to look it up.

Only for 6 or more points, if you acquire them within the first two years apparently - so not necessarily for a first offence.

www.gov.uk/speeding-penalties

A16 year old at our school was decapitated whilst his friend was driving, they were stupidly racing. He stuck his head out the window to shout at the other car as they were speeding along. The metal barrier at the side of the road took his head off.

There was so much wrong with the car his 17 year old mate was driving, the drivers seat was held up by the spare tyre etc. No MOT, no insurance.

i think England and Wales should copy Scotland and reduce the drink/drive limit. It is effectively zero up here so people don’t have any confusion over how much they can drink.

im in the U.S. and where I am we have graduated licenses. They also start learning at 14. They have to spend a year practicing and then finally earn the right to drive under very strict conditions. After another year it gets slightly relaxed again. They don’t get a real license until 17. That is 3 years of heavily supervised driving.

i love this system because it gives parents multiple years in control. There is no doubt about who is in charge of driving privileges. A parent can deny access to the car at any time if they don’t think their child is being responsible. the child doesn’t have the option of saying they are old enough to do what they want because they are still clearly a minor.

That is obviously horrendous. Really shocking and awful
BUT

If the lad driving had no regard for the laws surrounding

• the car having an MOT, and being in a roadworthy state
• having car insurance being compulsory
• speed limits

then he isn't going to take notice of an additional law saying he can't carry passengers, is he ?

So, it would make no difference to the arrogant idiots, but would severely restrict the thousands of teens who drive sensibly and don't cause accidents.

I’m torn on this one. Ds3 (18) passed his driving test six weeks ago. He works shifts so needs to drive in the dark to get to and from work. He’s very sensible, has taken extra lessons and practiced a lot with me before he took his test but is obviously still inexperienced. He has been giving friends a lift home from the gym and picking up other friends from their work or the bus station, all within town and I want him to be able to do this.

He and a colleague (in his 30’s) were asked to work some shifts at a different site, approximately twenty five minutes drive, in the dark, on a not great road. The colleague doesn’t drive and asked ds if he would give him a lift. Ds was happy to do it but we felt it was up to us as parents not to allow this. We’ve said he needs to get practice during the day driving this road or anywhere out of town, before he can take a passenger.

Three teenage lads have died over the weekend in a car. It is horrific.

My teenage son died recently, medical reasons. The pain of losing a child is the worst, absolute torture for the soul and family.

I learnt to drive in my late 20s in a country with restricted rules, even in my late 20s I needed those restrictions and grateful I never learnt to drive at 17yo as even though I consider myself to have been pretty sensible at 17 I would absolutely not had been a good driver, I’d would have made mistakes and wouldn’t have had the instincts that you need to be a good driver. I had to complete two particle tests before I had a full license.

The restrictions I learnt to drive under didn’t prevent new drivers (teens or adults) from driving to school, work, but they did ensure that new drivers drove under terms and conditions that gave them experience while still ensuring road safety was a priority. Restrictions could be fast tracked if intense driving courses were completed.

I would fully support a tiered licensing system for driving in the UK.

I'm in Australia where new drivers have passenger and night time restrictions - they vary by state. They all have exceptions for immediate family members and work or study. It's really aimed at a bunch of kids coming home from the pub.

I am so sorry.

You require ‘streets littered with car fulls of dead young people’

This not enough for you?

15-19 years olds experience almost double the risk of death from road traffic accidents (82.5 deaths per million population) in comparison to the general population (42.2 deaths per million population). For males in this age group the risk is higher still at 127.3 deaths per million population.

Population of 70million. You do the maths.

Yanbu...i am dreading all of this. We need to provide better public transport.

Ah yes. The pothole - 100% responsible for every stupid decision a teenager makes when behind the wheel of a car.

No. These ‘kids’ are completely responsible for their own actions. He killed his friends and he’s given ‘life-changing injuries’ to two young children.

Newbie drivers aren’t ‘falling off the roads’ they’re going too fucking fast to show off to their friends and they’re dying, and destroying the lives of others, for it. Stop making excuses for the actions of at best, stupid brainless fools, or at worst, arrogant, pig-headed, killers.

Parents, as you have just proved, and teenagers need to take some damn responsibility for their actions.

Reflecting on the comment about “personal responsibility”, the driver killed 3 of his friends. If he had crashed into an oncoming car, that may have been more lives. I do think we need restrictions. I still have 3 years before my eldest is legal to drive but I still worry for her as a pedestrian. Last week a driver crashed and died speeding along a dual carriageway near where I live at teatime. Anyone walking on that road, at that time would have died too.

Agree with many of the points raised here. There was a dreadful crash in my city very recently where four uni students were killed in a car accident, completely devastating for their families and all the emergency services involved.

However I would add that some of the worst and most aggressive driving I’ve witnessed recently has been middle aged men who are overconfident in their abilities and really ought to know better.

I’d really welcome a tightening up of driving standards across the UK as I think we could all collectively do better.

I remember passing my test at 17 and my parents reminding me that a car is a lethal weapon. Words that really stuck with me. I also remember my driving instructor saying that you don’t really learn to drive until you’ve passed your test - I.e. gaining real road experience on your own.
We need to make sure our teenagers are aware of their responsibilities as a driver and the consequences of reckless driving.

My heart always sinks when I read stories about those kind of teenager road accidents.

As PP have stated, parents are modeling driving to their kids from an early age. All new drivers, especially young ones should have a black box. I hear of all sorts regarding black boxes- parents paying extra in insurance so their children don’t have to have one etc. One of my DS’s acquaintances has rigged his to his laptop so it doesn’t detect his dangerous driving. My DS’s both had black boxes when they first passed. One was great- really reinforced good driving, the other was neutral, in that it didn’t reward good driving, but would have picked up bad driving. Parents do have to take some responsibility- someone I know has to pay a ‘fine’ if her son speeds. All she does is complain about the cost, rather than the fact that the black box is trying to ensure her son drives safely.
And yes, bad driving isn’t limited to teenage boys. Lots of older people near me drive in an unsafe manner.
The problem with legislation is that people learn to drive because they need to get about- restricting this might cause more problems than it solves as PP have stated.