To be gleeful that most of us were right

[Wranglestar]

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/adding-vat-to-private-school-fees-has-had-no-obvious-impact-on-state-sector-applications-390546/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR2ATdaVlNkJsbtC-KizuW4Fw41obnpvezxnFv4IAFwzJPHXmU90Awr5eqAaem9tMIsn9I0vHSC4jrdYONIA#0rd9makyd4264nstc4us9j77yk5kaoswtLondon Economic

And that private schools has had no impact on state school places. The rich have simply - paid more. Excellent news!

Impossible to tell the effect until September this year surely.

I’m saying that concentrating on 7% of the sector is illogical. Sort the inequalities across 93% of the sector, which affects far more people. Perhaps if everyone had access to excellent state provision they would be happy to use it. Most people aren’t paying for private school for the fun of it.

It’s absolutely ridiculous that we have a taxpayer funded system which allows some to throw money at tutoring, houses in expensive catchments etc in order to access the best state schools and yet the government is bleating on about a sector which only a small percentage attend.

Getting rid of private schools won’t solve inequality in this country.

Yep, this is us.
We would normally have another UK holiday (so less money for the hotelier and local restaurants).
We are now cutting down on local coffees and small spends.
We are not replacing our kitchen (instead we are doing up our current one).

So rather than that money going to small businesses, it's more money going to the Govt who will not put it in to extra teachers, it'll get lost in funding more diversity staff for the NHS.

Absolutely! The aim of this policy was (supposedly) to improve funding and standards in state school. Whether this aim has/will be acheived is solely measured by state school outcomes. These conversations around numbers in state vs private school are completely irrelevant.

As a governor to a state primary, I can say that this schools financial position is significantly worse than pre election, standards are dropping rather than going up, despite the teachers best efforts. The pay rise (well deserved but not fully funded) and NI rise, plus the further cuts to local government funding and SEN funding, have plunged them into a mess. 2 years ago they had 2 full time TA's in each class for whole class needs, and 1 to 1's were additional. Now each class has half a TA if lucky, and the school is funding 1 to 1's out of their general budget as the council is refusing to cover costs by delaying EHCP's. The situation is dire. I never wanted to look at private, we were really happy with the provision, but it's going downhill fast. So my husband is going for higher paid jobs, in areas he isn't as keen on, so we can fund this if it keeps going downhill.

The figures quoted lack context. Could well be to do with lower birth rates from around 2009 onwards.

From my perspective, I've just reduced my charitable givings by the amount of the VAT increase. So my outgoings have remained the same.

The school is also reducing bursaries to the less well off which most parents I know support.

"Getting rid of private schools won’t solve inequality in this country."

No, indeed. But if we want to 'solve inequality in this country', we do need to get rid of private schools as presently constituted, for sure.

And ...? Suggestions? (Wealth tax? UBI? What else? And why not?)

So I am supossed to put my child through a chaotic underfunded, understaffed school experience, which causes her distress every day due to noise and the child kicking her chair and the child tearing up her work, which leaves her exhausted every day just trying to hold all her emotions together, as the teacher is too busy crowd controlling to notice that the quiet girl in the corner is falling apart. In the name of 'social equality' of 'opting in' of 'using my sharp MC elbows'.

I will be 'opting in' to providing what my child needs, 'opting in' to protecting her mental health. It's not about grades, its about her being OK, of meeting her potential, whatever that may be.

If your child was very unwell, would you be saying to the Dr. 'Oh, we won't be taking that expensive life saving treatment which is her only chance, because I have looked into it, and not every area funds that, and I don't want my child to have something every child's who needs it can't have'? Honestly, would you?

Why do most parents support reducing bursaries?

Kindly, but why do you support VAT on education?

The UK is the only country in the world, I understand, that does this. NZ does but there is a subsidy in place but no other country does this. It's not allowed in Europe either.

Taxing education is just bonkers actually. And to introduce it mid-year is tantamount to child cruelty.

I don’t really understand your point here. I don’t think my child deserves better than other children. I don’t consider other children when making decisions about my child. I think my child deserves the best that we as her parents can give her.

Yes, private schools vary. The more expensive are often the worst, Eton a good example of this phenomenon.

As for Finland, I may be wrong, but I suspect your knowledge to be fairly superficial. If you want to know more, you might start with this:
EDUCATIONAL REFORMS IN FINLAND by Ari Antikainen and Anne Pitkänen

"VAT was introduced by the Finance Act 1972 and came into effect on 1 April 1973. Essential goods—such as food, fuel and housing—were exempted, but all other goods and services were charged at a single rate of 10%".

That is why VAT was never applied here - and is not applied to education anywhere else like it is now here in the UK. Precisely because education is in a civilised society seen as 'essential'.

Again completely disagree with you. I don’t think my own children deserve more than poorer children at all. I think all children deserve the same opportunities. But realistically that is not the UK. And yes I am willing to pay to have my kids in private school - and I don’t have to disguise it with any moral spackle at all. I put in more in taxes that I took out and I’m ok with that. But this is not about propping a whole social order - as you put it. This is about working within the limitations that the UK has. You may not like it but that’s the reality. We all make choices within the limitations that we have and we have to deal with that. The reality is Truly rich people won’t be affected at all by this and people who can afford it just on the line are the ones most affected - people with partial financial aid, sen needs and others. It makes no sense focusing on the 7% of people who send their kids to private school (not my statistic and haven’t confirmed this). You want standards of state schools being lifted? By all means I’m behind you but what you are proposing is not lifting poor kids up but bringing down kids you deem are rich - and that serves no society. What it serves is the people in power because whilst we are all arguing with each other the truly rich people who couldn’t give a flying monkey is VAT happened or not carry on about their merry life.

Please stop making sense.

Out of curiosity - who do you know that does? Most parents I know donate to the school specifically for burseries, organise fundraisers, and giving days. Some parents are more active than others - as some parents have more demanding jobs than others.

This is the OP, as they not coming back.

Because I am not giving you anymore money. If you abolish private schools we will educate abroad.

Tax us and we will find better ways to hide our money.

Taxing those of us that work our asses off just won’t work. Two generations ago my family were two up two down northern miners. My parents and I have killed ourselves for every single penny we have. Why the fuck should I give it away?

The playing field will never be level. I think my child deserves the best I can provide and definitely better than my own crappy childhood. There are children who go to school who aren't potty trained, have never been read a book and get put in front of the TV all day. Should we all do the same to level the playing field? Our local secondary school is dreadful and if we don't go down the private route then we will be relocating to a different catchment area. The houses are ridiculously expensive which means poorer children can't attend but apparently this is okay?

Yep. We can never level every child 'up'. Because the primary inequality is attitudes and behaviours, and 'no one can tell me what to do with my children'. The only way to level every child is to level down, which is a hopeless, depressing, cruel concept.

I also wonder how much all those pushing against private schools, do to promote equality, in practical terms, on a daily basis. There are things anyone who is genuinely concerned can do.

Ach, I’m just gleeful because of the sheer amount of idiots on here that swore blind the policy was the demise of all education. And also wanted us to feel sorry for them that they had to pay 20% more for their expensive education when they never previously gave a shit about anyone that wasn’t able to afford it. Reality? Nothing has changed. Rich be rich. Everyone else strides on.

Yep, this is us.
We would normally have another UK holiday (so less money for the hotelier and local restaurants).
We are now cutting down on local coffees and small spends.
We are not replacing our kitchen (instead we are doing up our current one).

im so so sorry for your loss @Iwishicouldflyhigh

Because I am not giving you anymore money. If you abolish private schools we will educate abroad.
Tax us and we will find better ways to hide our money.
My parents and I have killed ourselves for every single penny we have. Why the fuck should I give it away?

if this policy encourages at least one of your type of person to leave this country forever it’s a fucking massive win @Potsofpetals. I don’t want to live alongside people with this nasty self serving attitude in my community. This is what elitist systems breed.

Yeah - how’s that working out for you on the morning of huge welfare cuts on top of 10k job losses in the NHS? People who pay the most tax ‘are fucking off’ so less for everyone. slow hand clap