To be gleeful that most of us were right

[Wranglestar]

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/adding-vat-to-private-school-fees-has-had-no-obvious-impact-on-state-sector-applications-390546/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR2ATdaVlNkJsbtC-KizuW4Fw41obnpvezxnFv4IAFwzJPHXmU90Awr5eqAaem9tMIsn9I0vHSC4jrdYONIA#0rd9makyd4264nstc4us9j77yk5kaoswtLondon Economic

And that private schools has had no impact on state school places. The rich have simply - paid more. Excellent news!

I work with a lot of ex teachers. Their skill and experience is very much valued, and pay is always higher in my private sector. Classroom teaching isn’t for everyone. It really is a vocation, and for those it doesn’t suit it’s probably best the find other roles rather than stay just because they have a job.
same as any profession really.

Yep it is basic and lacking.

Ok but you’re fine with the subsequent welfare cuts?

YANBU. And I say that as a parent who has a child affected by the VAT rise.

I wouldn’t have used the word ‘gleeful’ but I am glad that the transition is going to be over time and not the chaotic shitshow that many private parents claimed would happen…

that would have benefitted no-one.

Why couldn’t the “wife” drive there?! And your assuming that it is the DH with the job. What misogynistic bull shit. I know plenty of women, both single and married, who have careers in the UAE. Some of them are teachers. Not only do they get paid much better, they don’t have to worry about violence from pupils. Likewise, the parents don’t have to worry about their DC being stabbed at school or on the way there or back. Who’s having the last laugh?!

This really is a god awful thread.
My oldest goes to a state primary. My youngest is at a nursery at the local prep school but will go to the same state primary.
The only things I care about re this policy are;

• will there be a net positive financial impact
• how have those funds been used (I.e have state school seen any increase in teacher numbers, funding levels)
• Has there been any specific, detrimental impact to children with SEND and should VAT exclusions be widened (I know those with an EHCP and nominated school are exempt)
• Has there been unintended consequences

i see the challenges in the state system. My son’s school is under funded and this year has asked parents for additional contributions (which we are happy to give). I note the increase in SEN in classrooms are the pressures that exerts. There are issues with staffing, the building, absenteeism, and behaviour. Surely, the only thing that matters is whether the VAT increase changes anything in the state system for the positive. Personally, I doubt it.

Why on earth would any parent - middle class or otherwise - be "willing to let their child fail"?

I have a child with SEN and will use every possible resource and opportunity at my disposal to give her the very best start in life and the tools to become a useful member of society. And a role model in the shape of a parent who will fight to obtain everything possible.

That surely is the whole point of being a parent?

Why are you just making stuff up? She has accurately described the disruption that can and does occur in too many classrooms.

If you can’t make your point without lying, perhaps you don’t have much of a point to make.

erm....better pension? No, it's the same pension. For many of us, anyway. I accept not all.

Sure, there are jobs in the state sector. But there aren't jobs which allow me to be anywhere near as creative in my curriculum delivery because there simply isn't space in the average state school classroom for it - not literal space, but the kind of space that is made when you're not fire fighting and managing behaviour continually.

And in my case, as a highly creative teacher (who has won awards, I might add), if my school no longer needs me, I wont' be returning to the state school classroom. I'll find something else. I know many of my colleagues feel similarly. It's unfortunate, I understand that perhaps I should but I did it for 15 years and I'm still teaching 5 years later with my mental health in one piece because I left.

It is telling how many people think we somehow deserve to be going through what we're doing through right now (and it's truly horrible) because we work in private rather than state. Wishing young people and children lose their school place, wishing staff of all kinds lose their jobs speaks volumes.

Your comments are disgusting. The pp never said that her DC couldn't cope being in a room disadvantaged children. She made the point that her child's learning had been impacted by unacceptable classroom behaviour due to lack of funding. You mention the "real world" in the PP but obviously don't live in it. If I were at work or in the library and someone ripped up my work or kept repeatedly kicking my chair HR or security would be involved. We should not be accepting violence and a negative impact on education in hopes of social equality.

It depends where you live I guess. Where I live there are thousands of different nationalities.
I think private prep school is elitist and a waste of money. Each to their own though.

Every single member of my family is a teacher in state education and all of us have managed to find innovative and creative ways to work in schools and colleges with limited resources. So I’d just suggest you aren’t actually a very good teacher in terms of also needing skills to manage children who are not able to conform to certain expectations that the middle class take as standard. You are able to teach on circumstances where the children are ‘not a problem’. That doesn’t mean private schools don’t shore up inequality.

Wah wah wah my kids are better than other people’s kids so they deserve to live in an unequal society that further advantages them. It is your attitude towards state educated children that is disgusting. I’ve spent my whole life in state schools in some of the most impoverished areas in the country and the idea that they are routinely violent (at least any more so than private schools) is just not true. It’s the way the middle class justify their choices ‘my child is better and therefore deserves a system where they are advantaged.’ I mean just admit that’s what you think. It makes it easier for the rest of us to move you out the way.

It's not deemed a luxury by any other country.

To see education as luxury, in whatever shape or form, is very sad indeed.

If so, perhaps we should have higher VAT on restaurants than food bought in a shop (going to a restaurant is surely 'luxury')?

Or, perhaps certain cars should carry higher VAT charges - Land Rovers in the city centres anyone - surely a luxury?!

What about private healthcare, music, swimming lessons etc etc.

The bottom line is that the UK was made successful due to people coming here from all walks of life, and from all corners of the world as there was freedom and freedom of choice.

If you don't like that, perhaps you'd feel more comfortable in China or Russia?

I hope you don't work in schools, you seem to have issues with your reading comprehension.

Of course I'm going to make decisions that will benefit my child. What everyone else does is up to them. I'm not from a middle class background, I just want better for my DC than what I had.

I was going to say something like this. I grew up in a place that is very “Never kissed a Tory” / “Tories are scum”. There are many people very opposed to private education there. Quite often, when someone discussed possibly going private, they would wibble on a bit and talk about what a difficult decision it is.

A side effect is that people who might have been a bit ambivalent about telling people their children go to private school now won’t be. They’re paying whatever their rate of income tax is and then 20% VAT on top of fees.

Yes, it does depend on where you live but based on my experience of living in various locations around the country, lack of diversity in state schools is very common. My brother and nieces don’t have one friend that is not white. And their experience of social diversity is extremely limited. In fact, my brother and his friends purposefully turned their back on my DH when they first met him because he is a “southerner”. And they don’t like southerners, “they’re all rich aren’t they”. And that’s a teacher in a state school, what hope do the kids have.

Finlands education system is amazing. There are different types of school in Finland you can choose to send your children too and the state funds the place. You are not assigned a place at a failing state school like can happen in the UK.

You're right. Most people with kids at the Royal Ballet School (and other MDS-funded schools) had no intention of choosing a private education at all and probably couldn't afford it anyway. But to their total astonishment they ended up having a child with an unexpected phenomenal talent, whose outstanding potential was spotted by their dance teacher, and it went on from there. The schools decide, not the parent. That is why the MDS scheme exists, so that children with that level of world-class ability are not disadvantaged by their parents' low income.

Have you ever spent time with Finns though??? I have. I’m not sure that amazing education system equips them for adult life that well…
As the joke goes ‘How can you tell if a Finn is an extrovert?’
’He looks at YOUR shoes’…

That poster is a deeply unpleasant piece of work.

of course, that's the way to go, insult me. I did 15 years in state. Did you miss that bit? Or was it easier to just slag me off.