It's a MIL one - how do I approach this

[LifesABeachx]

Just want to start with saying I'm grateful my MIL helps out with DC.
However there's a few issues regarding boundaries.
For instance MIL would go into my underwear drawer and take socks. She wouldn't say anything and I'd spot her with my socks on at a later date. She will use my products and hair tools (not a major issue) but always leaves the stuff out. She will also help herself to my snacks, quite often eating multiple or leaving none of certain things. Seems pretty petty but I have been openly annoyed about this one.

However, one time DP came home & she was watching DC who was napping. He walked in and she was walking around naked. She just laughed this off, but had no reason to be showering or walking about naked.

She has started sleeping over to let me work an extra day, it's just a short term arrangement. She brings pyjamas but will sleep naked, get up and walk around naked (usually in front of us) and take DC in to the bed with her whilst naked.
Since that she's started going in the bath with DC without asking if this is okay...

I'm just wondering if AIBU with being uncomfortable about this?
For some reason, I don't know how to approach this.

I would totally ignore the snacks, she is helping so she gets fed.
The socks, hair products are cheeky. I have borrowed socks in my daughter’s house, used her hair dryer but only in unexpected circumstances and after being offered.
The generational thing is a bit of a distraction, if she grew up in the 60’s she may have been exposed to the nakedness is good and natural mindset, which was a reaction to the more repressed preceding periods. My grandmother, born late previous century never exposed any flesh, mother born late 20’s would have not hidden from us if she was changing but would not have walked around naked, I was born 1960 and my kids would see me getting dressed, we would walk around upstairs in the morning once we were in underwear, consciously tried to give a body is not something to be ashamed of message to my girls but at the same time teaching them to understand when and where was appropriate!
The big issue here is your MIL not acting in an appropriate way, it is disrespectful to not find your views on parenting style and follow them but this goes beyond that and is either supreme entitlement, a desire to stir things up or some form of disinhibition that borders on an illness.
You could just change your pattern sooner to end the opportunities she has or you could tackle the situation by a frank conversation. You need to acknowledge that her views are fine in her home but be firm that you have a chosen style of parenting and she must respect that or not be as involved. Not easy to do so might be better coming from you and husband together.
Does she have other grandchildren, is there the same issues? If so can you present a united front?

I’m laid back about lots of things but this is really strange and would make me feel very uncomfortable. I was really close to other family members but I didn’t sleep with them naked, if I remembered that when I was older I would feel very strange about it, it’s really not ok

I'm a mil and when I visit my married dcs' homes I follow their house rules. Even if I was inclined to lounge around naked in my own house, which I'm not, there is no way I would do that in someone else's. I would potentially take socks from dd's drawer if I was desperate and she wasn't around to ask but I wouldn't dream of rooting through SiL's drawers even if his socks fitted. The snacks thing not an issue, just buy more.

I don’t think I could get past the nakedness. My mum sleeps naked (fine, it’s her preference) however even in her own home she will put a dressing gown on when walking about the house, she would never unnecessarily be naked in front of my DS and she wouldn’t do it in front of us either as it’s just not something we feel comfortable with. I would be really unhappy if she was being overtly naked in front of DS. It’s your home, not MIL’s so it’s your rules.

The walking around naked in someone else’s house without checking they’re okay with it first and laughing it off when they express discomfort is ill mannered and I would set that as a boundary also make your room off limits if you don’t want her in there. If it’s just the sock borrowing that bothers you then gift her some and tell her she doesn’t need to borrow yours anymore. I personally wouldn’t care about being naked around kids or bathing with them cos I did the same with mine and the bathing part is easier when they’re little but again it’s up to you as parents to decide if you’re comfortable with her. However she is doing you a favour currently and you might lose her help if you over criticise her childcare style/personality so pick which battle is most important to you. 🤷‍♀️ I guess it’s good she feels so close to you all and comfortable in your home. Maybe embrace your inner hippy and start walking around naked too?! 😂

You bathed with YOUR kids when they were little, that’s fine, most parents do that, this is the grandmother bathing with them and the mother and father are not on board with this or her taking the child to bed when she’s naked either or walking round their damn house NAKED!!! I never once bathed with my grandparents, there was no need to, they put me in the bath with maybe my cousin when we stayed over or whatever. I’m shocked anyone at all is condoning this batshit crazy behaviour. I’m guessing you are part of the 2% who voted OP was BU!! She’s not criticising her childcare, she’s criticising the fact she’s choosing to care for her child naked, there’s a difference. What grown man is happy to see their own mother starkers? It’s creepy, it’s weird, it’s disgusting having her bodily fluids seeping out of her around their home, aswell as pubes 🤢 nothing about what she is doing is acceptable behaviour and she sounds like she’s seriously mentally unwell, I wouldn’t trust her with my kids if I was OP!! Imagine an aging adult grandfather walking round bits hanging out in front of a young child and his adult daughter, it’s NOT ok no matter if it’s a man or woman doing this!!!

Just wanted to clarify to those telling me to pay for childcare. I already am paying for childcare. Unfortunately that is not every day of the week therefore MIL currently provides childcare 1 day.

Tried to discuss it with DP last night and highlighted how it's not acceptable and abnormal. He put it down to her personality again. Told me I should buy her something to wear / cover up with whenever she stays over.

I wish I could show all of your replies about this.
I'll be tackling it head on & just telling her next time that I want her to wear clothes and she needs to understand it's not acceptable.

I'm sorry but your DP is just brushing this under the carpet. Why on earth should it be your responsibility to buy your MIL something to wear/cover herself up when she stays with you.

Ask him if he would be comfortable if any of your family members came round and took all their clothes off. I'm pretty sure that he would be uncomfortable and he should understand that his mum makes you feel like that.

Lots of people have personality traits that are OK in their own homes but unacceptable in public or in other people's homes.

Honestly Op he's brushing it under the carpet.
Have you asked him outright if she has ever touched him or siblings in appropriately?

I get your in a sticky situation and only need childcare for 6weeks until you stop work so it will be very difficult to sort anything else between now and then, unless your existing nursery have space.

But I'd 100% make sure you have both children in professional childcare when you return to work.

I’d be telling her the next time she appears naked in my house she’ll be straight out of the door and on to the street and she can walk her free spirited naked arse all the way home.

You husband and MIL need made aware that is actually a form of assault. If you aren’t expecting to or consenting to and then she is deliberately showing you her naked self this is incredibly disturbing.

I would highlight to your DH that the fact he is so keen to brush it under the carpet is a fur there concern for this abusive behaviour towards him. He is not her baby, he is a fully grown man and should not be forced to see his mother naked, ever. The fact he cannot put a boundary there would make me very concerned for him, and I’d tell him that.

This is not a personality thing. It is an assault.

I'm going to start the chat by saying to her that we won't have a spare bedroom soon. Then mention that I would appreciate - if she needs to - her getting changed in private. And if she ever stays over to make sure she's wearing pyjamas or clothes at all times, especially if she around DC - and that I don't want anymore shared baths.

Your comments have all validated my feelings about. Thanks for your replies!

That's a very good point about DH not recognising the assault because its 'normal' to him.
I would be really worried about having this woman around my kids. In exactly the same way I'd be worried if it was the grandfather.

It's just not normal.

See this IS where it gets malicious: you have expressed to her that you're not comfortable with her going around naked, go through your drawers etc and she just doesn't care about what you think is appropriate in YOUR house. Therefore you really need to find another babysitter (your mum?). I wouldn't trust your Mil around my child because one of the important things we teach children is boundaries and what is socially acceptable. Does she also has little consideration for how your dc feels about things? Ex. Does she force hugs/kisses. My advice is LTBMIL

I completely agree and to be honest I think OP is under-reacting. She would not be allowed unsupervised access to my children. It is not just men who abuse and this is really concerning behaviour!

Relative or not she is exposing herself sexually to children. OP, If she (or your DH) won’t listen to you then I’m sure the police would happily give her a stern warning.

You don’t need your husbands approval to say no grown adult should be showing their genitals to your kids. It really is that fucking simple.

The Grandmother would probably struggle to defend herself against any accusations too, esp the bath and getting into bed with children naked.

There's that old MN saying when someone shows you who they are believe them.

This woman Granny or not is getting something out of eroding boundaries.

I’m sorry to say this out loud but children are more likely to be abused by someone known to them.

I’m not saying MiL is an abuser but knowing this fact, no one would be allowed to be naked in bed with my child or take a bath with them.

I understand all families are different but both you and your DH find it inappropriate.

I grew up in a pretty naked house. My mum wouldn't bat an eyelid about being naked with us if she was showering/bathing or getting dressed. I had baths with my mum, and my grandma when I was small, and I saw my grandparents naked in their house because of baths, getting dressed etc. But that was my mum in her house, and my grandparents in their house. My grandparents didn't do this in someone else's house. That's just weird. To walk around naked in someone else's house is crossing a boundary. Unless she was just hopping into a shower and he happened to catch her crossing the landing (and even then, in someone else house this is odd) then it is very strange and unreasonable behaviour. It's not normalising nakedness in that sometimes we are naked, and are naked to bathe, etc. It seems like being intentionally naked to force it upon the children. Does she have an agenda?

OP, this isn’t just about “uncomfortable” or “lifestyle differences.” I’m really sorry to say this, but this behavior falls into the category of covert incest and I think it’s highly possible she’s grooming your child with an eye towards physical sexual abuse.

For the last several months, I’ve spent a lot of time studying the Menendez brothers murder case. In 1989, when they were 18 and 21, they shot their parents to death. The prosecution claimed they did it because they were entitled rich kids who were concerned their father was going to write them out of his will. They say they did it because both their parents had been sexually abusive - their mother in the past, their father currently with the younger brother - and they were afraid their parents were going to kill them because they’d confronted their parents about the abuse and threatened to tell other people.

Whether one believes them or not, some of the things your MIL is doing are literally the same things they accused their abusive mother of doing, and expert witnesses said those behaviors were consistent with incestuous mothers. Allegedly, she’d be topless or naked around them at times, and family members backed up the claim that when the father was out of town, she’d make one of the boys sleep in her bed with her. Family members also testified that she’d go in the bathroom when the older brother was taking a bath or shower and stay for around fifteen minutes. He didn’t testify that she got in the bath with him, but she allegedly would wash him all over, including his genitals, at an age when he was past needing help with bathing.

So we’ve got inappropriate nudity around child, sleeping in the same bed as child (which is her idea), and invading privacy while bathing. Only your MIL seems to be more frequently naked than they claimed their mother was. Again, expert witnesses said these behaviors were frequently seen with incestuous mothers.

Your MIL needs to never be alone with your child again, and the nudity around your family needs to stop now.

It’s your house and your rules. She needs to respect your house. Yes she may prefer to be naked in her own house but she knows that society expects her to be dressed when outside of the sanctuary of her own house.

maybe put it on DP to be in charge of childcare as you don’t want a naked grandparent in the house anymore.

I have alternative arrangements for childcare for the rest of the month.

To give a better idea of what I've meant. Rather than getting changed in private, she's leaving the door open or walking out to get something or do something... usually not necessary, without an item of clothing on - whether it be topless or bottoms.
Then is choosing to sleep naked, although has pyjamas packed. If shes staying over and hears DC shout or get up out of bed, she'll sometimes grab something to barley cover her and walk out I.E a pyjama top to cover her front and that's it. It's usually not necessary for her to respond as I'm there at this point. Or if DC wakes up and wants to see her, she won't immediately put clothes on, she'll have something around her, hers up or back into bed and let DC in.

Anytime DP has saw her barley covered, he does tell her to put clothes on and tells her it's weird.
Usually if she gets up with no clothes on, I'll make a point of saying I'm there or don't need help.

And I don't allow DC to sleep in the room. I've made it clear I'm not comfortable with either of them sleeping in the same room.

She did ask to start having DC overnight and I said No. She pushed a little and then said she would leave it and can see I'm not for it.
Regarding her pushing DC's boundaries, she's not overbearing in that sense, doesn't force kisses or cuddles. She will usually ask her if she'd like a cuddle or ask if she'd like to give one.

I would absolutely not in any way allow her to have my dc overnight when I’m not there. Not even in a worst case scenario basis, just on everything you’ve described and her general lack of boundaries.

I wouldn’t feel comfortable with her staying over either. She needs to learn your home is not her home and she shouldn’t be as comfortable as she is there