To think DD is never going to sleep through …

[allwoundup]

Logically I know she will, at some point anyway but … she’s 20 months now and I’m so so over being up for hours every night.

I know co sleeping is pushed on here but it doesn’t work for us. She just stays awake and thrashes around.

Sleep is very erratic, there’s no predictability at all to it. Some nights she wakes before I go to bed at about 9. Some nights (like tonight) she sleeps until 2/3 then it takes a good hour to two hours to resettle her. Some nights she goes straight back to sleep but wakes two or three times (or more.) Very, very occasionally, maybe once every two months, she will randomly sleep through and I’m walking on cloud nine the next day and then I’m brought back down to earth as there’s another crap night.

I have actually tried sleep training her using gradual retreat; it didn’t work. It did for her brother who was actually a much worse sleeper.

We have a solid routine, she doesn’t nap for too long, she eats quite well.

She has now been awake an hour I’m up for work at 6.

After a long time of never getting more than an hours sleep at a time and trying all the usual things like gradual retreat, co-sleeping etc I set up the cot in the living room (we had a tiny flat) and put my DS in that to sleep and shut the door. It was the only way to break the habit of him waking every hour. It was awful, but nothing else worked.

My DS didn’t sleep, he would sometimes wake hourly it was awful. Lasted around 18/20 months and even then he was still up at 5am. His sleep got better on starting school.

i tried everything, black out blinds, tilting the cot ,gro clock etc. The only things I remember making a difference was teaching him to put him self to sleep, so stopping rocking/soothing to sleep and making sure he went to sleep independently in his cot. Stopping offering feeds in the night. Getting rid of the dummy, he would wake for the dummy when it fell out his mouth. Once all those things were in place he started sleeping 8-5. Once naps were gone (he napped until 4!!) he slept 7-7.

You don’t mention your dp in this? How i coped was I would feed ds at 7 then dh would do bath/bedtime and give him an expressed bottle around 9/10 pm. I’d go to sleep at 8, dh would deal with wakings until midnight then I would take over. I’d usually sleep 8-1 (5 hours) and then snatch what I could between 1-5am so I usually got around 7 hours. Dh slept roughly 12-7. On a weekend we would each get a layin until 10am.

I'm really sorry, it's awful.
My first was a terrible sleeper, took him ages to fall asleep, up random times in the night. Co sleeping never worked past 6 months as he can't really fall asleep with you in the room (still can't). So we all got no sleep but whilst being kicked. He started sleeping through when he dropped the nap and is now an excellent sleeper aged 4.

My younger one is now 18 months and generally sleeps through but wakes for the day between 4-5.30 am. I'm exhausted. I think it's actually worse for me than the newborn phase as at least then I was at home whereas now I'm back at work which is pretty demanding. I feel like a zombie some days.

I'm really sorry you are going through this, I won't offer suggestions as I feel with some kids you can tweak all the routines and their sleep is still shit. I know with my youngest he's basically waking early as he needs 12 hours sleep in total and is having a 2 hour nap, but at the end of the day we put him to bed at 7 in the week because we need to start working again after bedtime, and he is really tired for the nap at home at the weekend. It's a phase like everything else but it feels long and tortuous! Hang in there!

OP can you hire a sleep specialist who might be able to help? Or a night nanny? My little one struggled with naps but weirdly two weeks with a childminder and he was sorted. Same with a nanny, she managed to put him down no issue just from her experience.

Solidarity from me too. My first was an early riser and a multiple Walker and I was on my knees.

i do think though that you could do with some support, you sound very, very down saying that you wished that you’d never had her and you can’t stand the sight of her. It does sound as though you could be depressed.

And I know that you’ve said that you don’t want help but upping her calories in the day might help. There’s a good guide here from the Caroline Walker Trust which gives an idea of how many calories she needs, portion sizes and suggested menus.

We also found that we had some success with the No Cry Sleep Solution for Toddlers & Preschoolers.

The other thing that helped was having a lie in on my days off. DH woukd her up early and take them downstairs fir breakfast so I could have an extra hour or two.

Oh and I’ve just seen that she woke for water. Does she have a no spill cup of water that she can reach in the night without disturbing you?

Thanks .,, @BunnyRuddington the situation is getting me down but I didn’t mean that post … it was just borne from frustration.

I might see if DH would be up for going into her but historically this just hasn’t worked because he gets all flustered and he doesn’t wake when she does so it involves waking him then he goes for a wee and faffs around …

I’m not sure a sleep specialist would work for the same reasons the advice here isn’t applicable; because I never know what the night will bring. She isn’t an awful sleeper in the same way as some have described but she is all over the place. She actually slept very well for the first seven months or so; we had the odd bad night especially when on holiday or something and then she started teething and that was that. I think I am just tired of being tired.

I have sympathy for you, it is hard at this age. But one day she will sleep through, my bad sleeper didn't until almost 3, but she is almost 17 now and it seems like a world away. Also like someone once said to me when they are teenagers and you have to wake them up for school it does kind of feel like your getting your own back. Ssh don't tell the kids though.

DD did drop her nap at 18months which seems insanely early but it did help a little. Like your DD though her waking was random and never at the same times.

@allwoundup DS was exactly like this. Shortly before he was two, I recalled how wonderful it had been when he was a tiny baby (we had a long interlude from about 5 to 16 months of him being unwell after bronchiolitis and then dreadful ear infections - 11!).

When things got back to normal and he was well again I recalled he had slept from 11.30pm until 5.45am from five weeks old. In that moment I realised he did not need much sleep and that I would fare better with a solid 5/6 hours rather than 8pm to 2pm, then up for three hours, with two more captured from 5.30 to 7.30.

I started putting him to bed at 10pm. It worked. He slept 10pm until about 5.30/6.00am. He was conditioned from then on that 7.30 until bedtime was quiet time and he could look at books but would not be played with.

He is 30 now. Even as a teen he didn't sleep in. I never, ever had to wake him before school. Some children just don't need 12 hours sleep. It got better when we went with the flow.

DH and I were evidently much the same.

Does the child have a father? Get them to do more.

Unless you're a single parent or dad is working abroad, there's absolutely no reason to do every night yourself.

Sorry if this advice is off the mark. But there are so many women who do all the nights themselves due to being married to lazy useless men. I was one of these and I don't know why I put up with it so long when I was severely depressed with sleep deprivation.

In terms of advice, one of mine was like this. Dropping the nap at age 2 helped . So did a later bedtime (8.30 pm). Other than that nothing worked.

We went down to a 30mins nap at that age, before getting rid of the nap completely by 2. It was the only way to make sure DC was definitely tired enough before 8pm and not up for ages in the night, as though the first part of the night was just a nap. Things aren't perfect and he does end up in with us, but usually after 2am and we all go back to sleep until 6am ish.

Solidarity, OP. My DD has just turned two and is just starting to sleep through occasionally now (but not every night by any means). Her brother was about 18 months when he started to sleep through.

I know it doesn't feel like it right now but you are probably close to the end of the tunnel, even if you can't see the light yet.

This is your problem. Get your husband doing 50 50. If he loves you he will want to help you. How can he watch you feeling so dreadful and not do. He is clearly a lazy selfish arse. Doesn't wake? Flusters around? Pff. Get him to sleep in the child's room then you'll have 2 closed doors between you.

It is so tough, my first slept through at 6 months, my 2nd not until 2nd birthday. I did exact same with both, so I don't think it's anything I did or didn't do, its just luck of the draw.
Biggest changeable thing is your DH. I survived it by doing alternating nights with my DH. Your DH is practicing weaponised incompetence - making it look like there is no possible way he can manage the wakes so you end up doing it all. He needs to step up and support you, if necessary, you need to go away for a couple nights and leave him to get on with it, so he starts to realise just how hard it has been for you, and so you get some rest.

The situation with DH is … he’s actually been a lot better of late as I ripped him a new one to coin a phrase I’ve never fully understood a few weeks ago after I did a full weekend as a single parent as he decided to do urgent tasks in the garden and vanished for hours. But the thing is it wouldn’t actually result in my getting any more sleep which is what it’s all about!

Either hire a sleep consultant or do some form of sleep training that's a bit less gentle.
Get hubby to do a night and get some good earplugs

If he’s sleeping at night and you’re not. Is he at least letting you have a lie in at the weekend and also taking her out for a few hours so that you get some time to yourself to sleep or relax and recharge?

He does let me have a lie in but the kids are so loud I don’t get much peace!

I know you’re not after advice OP but I was wondering if any setup involving you being in the sane room but not involved in doing anything is an option? Eg a mattress in child’s room that you lie on but she stays in cot wuth toys. You just say, mummy’s here, play with your toys if you want but I need to sleep. Hopefully you can drift off a bit if you’re not having to do stuff with her? O had a nightmare sleepers too. Hideous…

You have my sympathy. Mines are older now but sleep deprivation is torture. I don’t think people realise quite awful. It can be. I used to dream of going to prison. Locked up 23 hours a day with nothing to do but sleep. Looking back I’m not sure why I didn’t just dream of a lottery win and a night nanny.

He needs to take them out as soon as they’re up then!

Oh I’m so sorry. You sound so fucked off and just done in. I remember well those feelings with my eldest non sleeper, and currently I am doing a bed wetting alarm with my youngest which involves being woken at random unpredictable times, so I really get the impact of not knowing if it will be a good or bad one. You kind of need the predictability to allow your nervous system to come down from alert mode. Plus it depends what time you are woken/ where you are in a sleep cycle, how easy it is to fall back asleep. 4am I’m finding currently is the absolute worst, it’s better if we are woken earlier, like midhnight last night.

Would DH be able to let you get away for a night? Just go to a hotel and sleep as much as possible? Sounds like you really need it.

Ok so sounds as though he needs to pack some drinks and snacks and get them all out to the park for a couple of hours.

And do think about talking to your GP about how you’re feeling. My own “D”M had, and still has, quite obvious depression. Several GPs have tried and failed to get her to recognise this, and to say it’s affected out relationship is a bit of an understatement.

@Jollyjoy yeah I’d say most of the bad wakeups (for her as well as me) are around 3-4 am. It’s a nightmare when I’m at work the next day too.

No advice here, OP. Just solidarity as I have a 16.5 month old who also isn’t sleeping through. For a week we had 3/7 nights sleeping through but that’s completely gone and now she’s awake for the day at 4-5am. We’ve tried various gentle sleep training methods, but I just can’t bring myself to do the Ferber/ cry it out sleep training and leave her properly distressed and crying so instead I spend so much time settling her and it often doesn’t work. I think it’s just a really hard stage and some children sleep better or worse than others. Let’s hope your daughter gets to the other side sooner rather than later, surely as language develops it gets easier right?!