if I told you I wanted to socialise with my surgeon

[EustaceEustace]

you'd tell me he couldn't because it was inappropriate and that I was unreasonable for asking right?

But if you are famous, you can get your surgeon to do an interview with you, a cosy photoshoot and say things like:

“We’re going to be friends for the rest of our lives,” McCall says to him. “We are going to go out to dinner with our partners! We are GOING TO DO IT!”

https://www.thetimes.com/article/1c160a07-3b88-4e58-8db0-f5624a5ac4f6

Davina McCall: My brain surgery and the doctor who saved me
When the TV presenter posted on social media in November that she had a brain cyst, she was already on the operating table. Now the patient and her neurosurgeon, Kevin O’Neill, reveal their powerful bond

(paywall but basically an interview with her and her surgeon (from which the above is a direct quote) and a photoshoot - the image below is just one picture. There is another where he's in a suit and she has her hand draped over him

don't know if this will link:

https://www.thetimes.com/imageserver/image//2f5253ea-1e0d-4e18-9ae9-0857a96ad44d.jpg?crop=3543,2834,0,663

Makes me think less of him that he agreed to do it in that way because I bet almost everyone who has successful brain tumour surgery whether malignant or benign feels a huge emotional attachment and overwhelming gratitude to their surgeon - which is precisely why the professional rules about non-professional contacts with patients are so strict. The BMA even prohibits accepting social media friend request from patients!

AIBU to think she shouldn't have done this (i don't mean an interview about her surgery generally, I mean this 'emotional bond'/out for dinner/cosy photoshoot with the surgeon) or said what she said and he shouldn't have done it either.
and he wouldn't have done the same thing for someone non-famous (I get that is why there was interest from the paper - but say you had a leading allotment gardener who wanted to do the same thing in allotments weekly or a company secretary in company secretary monthly). Other patients could look at this and think, well if she can try to go out with him socially why can't I?

@Kirbert2 hugging and the sort of stuff you are describing is still contact in the hospital in the context of a professional relationship. I thinking gift giving is a bit over the line myself but if it's open and done within the hospital environment it would be no different from helping a long stay child to have a special birthday. Most people who have had a traumatic experience in a hospital and been crying will have been hugged or had an hand hold/arm round shoulder from a medical professional.

That is completely different from taking it to a social level external to the professional relationship- that's the issue - the initial contact is only because of the professional relationship which has a power imbalance - grateful reliant patient and the godlike powerful doctor. doctor also will have private and personal information about the patient they wouldn't otherwise have access to.

Was this the Jeffrey Archer trial or a different one?

Was this the Jeffrey Archer trial or a different one?

not that one.

Maybe she could ask him to sort her cheekbones out 😬

I just hope he turned the dial down from shout to talk when he was inside her head.

I’ve often wondered if I am the only person who dislikes Davina McCall because she seems so universally popular, especially riding on the menopause wave.
This just confirms my feelings about her. She is weirdly smug.
I’m glad she came through her surgery well of course as I would be for anybody but thats all.
I have a consultant who I have been seeing regularly for the past ten years and it is (hopefully) my final appointment at the end of this month. I’ve bought them a present to say thank you because they have always been exceptionally kind and gone the extra mile for me but it would never occur to me to be so arrogant as to ask them out for dinner.
The surgeon should have politely declined citing professional boundaries.

Agree. And I wonder how much of an empath he is with his patients who aren't rich and famous.

I mentioned hugging because it wasn't always when upset, sometimes it was when we received some good news and now it happens with a few when we go back to visit wards when he has his monthly check ups.

He received several gifts, mostly related to spiderman. Off the top of my head he got the spiderman top, spiderman walkie talkies, nike trainers, spiderman comic book, spiderman duvet cover and probably a few more things I'm forgetting.

They really treat him like a king. I'll never forget it.

Probably not the best idea if it’s your gynaecologist…..

I agree, weird and I would say inappropriate and unprofessional for him. I sense he is seeking celebrity. Maybe this will land him a weekly slot on This Morning.

Ah yes so tell me about Davina's flaps ..

It's different, but my aunt has become very close friends with her grief counsellor, and now her sessions are over she'll be socialising with her.

As long as no professional rules are being broken, I don't see the issue with becoming friends with someone you get along with.

This 👆
It doesn’t matter what field you work in, celebrity endorsement sells.

She’s weird, end of.

That is very much breaking professional rules.

Well it gives me the ick about both of them tbh. It would not encourage me to use him as a private patient. I'd want someone professional.

I always suspect that people who always bang on about "being empaths" are actual raging narcissists. These two are doing nothing to prove me wrong.

Peter Andre married his surgeons daughter so 🤷🏻‍♀️

@kungfoofighting it's been signed off by her supervisor.

If the professional duty has been discharged I do think it's normal for people to click and become friends.

Unprofessional and odd. Also I have just about had enough of Davina and hearing about this brain tumour. I get she's been through a tough time and I am very glad she's pulled through, but enough!! I hardly watch telly, rarely on social media... yes every time there she is talking about her brain tumour.

I had two surgeons who took good care of me when I was ill a very long time ago. We stay in touch, meet up for a catch up coffee every couple of years or so and I invited them to my wedding. We are also Facebook friends.

I know it’s probably not appropriate, but they saved my life and I think they like seeing how far I have come since.

I doubt they would do a photo shoot with me though. But I’m not famous…

Ffs who cares?? Doctors are allowed to see who they want, she is no longer a patient I presume so it's no big deal. They have highlighted and raised awareness on a health issue, surely only good can come of it. As for posing. Well as I said who cares.

She's raising awareness. It's a good thing in my book.

@ForTealBee
It's different, but my aunt has become very close friends with her grief counsellor, and now her sessions are over she'll be socialising with her.
As long as no professional rules are being broken, I don't see the issue with becoming friends with someone you get along with.

You are missing the core point. In these situations, you have one person who is very vulnerable (the patient) and one person who is very powerful (the treating professional).

The 'click' is absolutely illusory because it is predicated on an unequal footing. The way that it started (power imbalance) will be the case forever. This is not cured by the professional relationship ending unless perhaps many years have passed or that the professional matter was very trivia and passing (ie. not grief counselling and not brain surgery). The power holder is abusing their position by pursuing a sexual or emotional or even social relationship outside of the professional relationship - because they have only been able to establish any kind of 'relationship' or 'contact' with the patient because of their professional relationship. It is only that fact that ever brought them into contact and because of that professional relationship the professional acquires much personal information they wouldn't have otherwise. The patient is likely to be very open and frank and confess extremely personal things and fears related to the matters for which they are being treated - the more severe and serious the issue, the more likely it is the confessional will be more personal.

The professional is not a 'friend' or meeting someone in the same way they would create a friendship because they have access to extremely personal and emotional information only because of their status.

Personally, I think it is deeply abusive for a grief counsellor to socialise with someone they counselled for grief. It is a very very vulnerable time and a grieving person will automatically latch on to anyone they see as a safe port of call in a storm. I am very shocked that this would be signed off by anyone and I doubt it is true that happened to be honest. I suspect that if its true that the counsellor is saying that its been signed off (I don't know whether your source of this is your friend or the counsellor directly) the counsellor is lying if they are saying it's all been approved because it would undermine the professionalism of the whole organisation. It has such an abuse potential - moving in on a grieving person for your own ends, whether that's to get a new clinging dependent friend or maybe access to their inheritance - it just looks terrible.

Doctors are allowed to see who they want, she is no longer a patient I presume so it's no big deal.

No they aren't "allowed to see who they want". This is what the guidance says as to why this matters:

Why is maintaining professional boundaries so important?
Although the nature of the relationship between doctors and their patients
has changed over recent years, with greater emphasis on partnership and
patient autonomy, it is still the case that the relationship is not an equal one.
There is an inevitable power imbalance, doctors have access to sensitive
personal health data about patients and some patients who are seeking
medical care may be in a very vulnerable position. Whilst a friendship or
relationship may not influence a doctor’s actions or decisions in any way,
there may be a perception that it has or might have done. Doctors can also be
vulnerable to complaints if a personal, or other non-clinical, relationship (for
example a business arrangement) with a patient breaks down.

It is completely inappropriate and why is he in scrubs and she’s in a cocktail dress? The whole thing is weird.
She’s obviously had a hard time and I’m glad she’s on the mend, but we really don’t need to hear any more about it. Horribly attention seeking.