To think our quality of life can’t keep going up forever?

[Wildflowers99]

I saw a post on a thread which said if you have 3 children (for example) you NEED 4 bedrooms, because children sharing a room is unacceptable in terms of their quality of life. And another saying being able to eat things like peppers out of season is essentially a right, and therefore they should have a price cap.

It got me thinking because what we expect as a basic quality of life seems very very different to even 50 years ago. But the problem is with the advent of climate change, cost of living, ageing population and so on, is it realistic for expectations to keep going up? Have we now reached a point where our quality of life will have to plateau or even reverse a bit because the economy and world cannot support what we have come to expect?

Hope that makes sense, I’m a bit zombified after a 5am start with my toddler…

People are realistic - they just don't want quality of life to go down, which it has been doing since the late 1990s.

It's not unreasonable to want salaries to keep up

ETA after reading your update: there is no law suggesting that children of opposite sexes can't share the same room either. So, again, you are making the choice based on what you feel is beneficial to your children and not out of concern for finite resources.

There are particular reasons why my two cannot share regardless of law, but I’d have no problem with my daughter sharing with me if need be. It might not be ideal but there’s no reason why she couldn’t if need be.

We all make decisions based on a balance of cost and benefit, being content with what you can afford to provide doesn’t mean not striving to change things where you can, it does mean separating out what I want from what I need. In my daughter’s case she wants a bigger room, what she actually needs is somewhere safe and comfortable to sleep, which she has. Taking account of my finite resources I can meet her needs but not this particular want.

But other people should be content with what they’ve got.

That’s not what I’m saying though. The constant push for bigger, better, more isn’t actually making people happy or improving quality of life, because there’s always something bigger or better to aim for. And it’s driving people to work half to death for the better car on PCP, or the bigger house, or the clothes, grooming treatments, next thing in tech.

I need a home for my kids, I don’t need a 4 bed detached house with garage. I need a car, I don’t need a prestige marque Chelsea tractor, I need a phone, I don’t need an iPhone 12. I need to be well presented for work, I don’t need lashes, brows and nails done every month etc, etc. I might be able to afford something on that list and cut my cloth accordingly, and will need to be content with that.

The idea of needs and wants is so conflated now, there’s nothing wrong with wanting a better quality of life, the idea that better always means more though is unhelpful at best. It’s fine to want your child to have their own room, but if it means working a 60 hour week to provide it, is that really a better quality of life?

The constant push for bigger, better, more isn’t actually making people happy or improving quality of life,

But that's because salaries have stagnated & house prices vs salaries are so wide now. It's not because someone thinks they will find enlightenment at the bottom of a chai latte.

I do think that some posters are being disingenuous suggesting that if anyone younger is struggling with money not going far enough, it's because they want a fancy car, huge detached house, lashes/botox, 4 foreign holidays a year. That that's the "quality of life" that the younger generations are missing out on, and that's fine, because they can just have older cars, not get botox, buy a smaller house, and holiday in the UK.

There have been so many posts on here from people saying that they don't want those things, but just to be able to buy property (any property), have some days out, maybe treat themselves to something every once in a blue moon. That even UK holidays are out of reach so they'd settle for just being able to do a nice day trip every so often. But they can't, because their money won't stretch that far.

I think there's a real disconnect between what older generations think younger generations are 'whinging' about, and what we're actually whinging about. Probably because it's much easier to dismiss the whinging if you can paint us out as being spoiled.

Sure, maybe some are complaining about not being able to live it up like a Dubai stay at home girlfriend, but that's not what I see my peers struggling with.

This.

My grandad is 95. Hearing him tell my DS12 that he grew up with a well, no electric and left school to work on the family farm is like listening to Ancient History.

I share the concerns up thread about climate change, but once again it's all about inequality. The truth is that "people like us" sharing bedrooms or turning the heating down makes f all difference in the current economic climate because it all gets cancelled out by the rich.

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/inequalities/2024/11/19/billionaire-pollutocrats-are-driving-the-climate-crisis/#:~:text=The%20massive%20impact%20from%20super%2Drich%20people's%20investments&text=The%20average%20investment%20emissions%20of,private%20jets%20and%20superyachts%20combined.

But crack on squabbling with each other and blaming our problems on lip filler and immigrants. The billionaires must be delighted.

I agree. Yes, my DC spend more on appearance than I did. ( no Botox or filler or lashes). But it's the lipstick effect really.
Harder for them to get jobs and rent, so am helping them out by letting them stay rent free as long as they want.

I don't know. I partly agree and partly - don't. I'm 37 and my parents are late 50s and early 60s. Would I want to live like them when they were my age? No, not really.

They were (still very much are) well-to-do. No problem with money and there never was. Own multiple properties, live in a very large house. Everything owned outright, no mortgages - ever.

But when growing up, it was all rather..dull? They had the money, but everything was always geared up towards that 'quality of stuff' (often mentioned here) and 'practicality'. So, for example, when furnishing the house. Let's get not quite what you want, but something 'timeless and classic' and also practical, so it 'withstands the test of time' and can stay there for decades and decades and decades. Say you'd LOVE a green/red/whatever (insert some non beige/brown/grey/black) sofa. But no, let's get a brown one, always practical, looks timeless, never gets old, doesn't matter if it's not what you really want. And let's pay thousands for it, buy 'the best', and then keep it until you die, because, well. You paid thousands for it.

Multiply it to all the areas of life. Want this backpack? It's a fashion backpack, not a 'quality' one, let's better get this boring black leather one from xxx brand (the best), pay hundreds for it and you'll wear it from primary until you graduate, because it will last. And so on and so forth. No holidays abroad, because it's good enough locally anyway, and the money spent on that can be spent on other, important things. And I repeat, we weren't short of money and could easily afford holidays abroad.

They were not misers, my parents. They didn't skimp and scrimp, we didn't eat basic out of date food, wore old clothes with holes, washed once a week to save water - nothing like that. But everything was so 'practical' and joyless.

I don't have nowhere near as much money as they do. Don't own multiple properties. My furniture and household stuff is much cheaper. But my house is colourful, the way I want it. I'll buy a pink coat if I want it (an example), not 'practical' and 'timeless', but it makes me happy. I travel. A lot. It's a driving force in my life and brings me the most joy of all. They are richer. But I am happier. Wouldn't trade places.

I did learn some of their habits and I'm not a frivolous waster at all. Don't do all the 'nails, lashes' and that stuff, change tech only when the old dies, don't buy endless clothes, etc. So I partially agree, maybe we DO expect too much, to have ALL of these things. But my personal line is caravan holidays in the UK and household without a washing machine. That's a firm no.

I think the most annoying thing is that people thought technology would freevup leisure time...it hasn't. We are working ever harder.

But when growing up, it was all rather..dull? They had the money, but everything was always geared up towards that 'quality of stuff' (often mentioned here) and 'practicality'. So, for example, when furnishing the house. Let's get not quite what you want, but something 'timeless and classic' and also practical, so it 'withstands the test of time' and can stay there for decades and decades and decades. Say you'd LOVE a green/red/whatever (insert some non beige/brown/grey/black) sofa. But no, let's get a brown one, always practical, looks timeless, never gets old, doesn't matter if it's not what you really want. And let's pay thousands for it, buy 'the best', and then keep it until you die, because, well. You paid thousands for it

Ive been reflecting on a lot I've read on this thread and I realise my problem is different to your parents. My issue when I look back is I settle for things, so say I'd love a pair of boots, I see some lovely ones, beautiful soft leather, just the shade of brown I'd like but they cost £250. On the other hand there are some OK boots, not such good quality, stiffer leather, bit of a dull colour but they only cost £50. I buy the £50 ones.

I've been hard up for a fair bit of my life, tough childhood in the 50s with my dad dying while I was still a child, mother quickly remarried a horrible man. Then I married young, to escape I suppose, and he was a drunk and money was tight we had 2 children, I divorced remarried had 2 more children. A new start with an easier life and then an incident at work left him disabled, we fought for nearly 20 years to get adequate compensation/appropriate pension. We didn't manage the compensation but did sort the pension out. The issue was an undiagnosed condition which contributed to his disability but it might never have caused him a problem. I'm not rich but I'm not poor, but I don't spend money on me and I'm not sure what my issue is, I mean if I've got £250 why shouldn't I have the boots?

I've done it again today, ordered some new bedding but the colour isn't quite the same as it was onlne. I bought it in a sale, it was a bargain but it isn't quite what I wanted. I've stripped the bed and put the new stuff on, it looks nice but not really what I wanted.

I think it is the big difference between me and my DD and DDIL. They'd wait and get the perfect one.

Is that a generational thing, is it just me. I don't know but it has made me think.

I agree - our lifestyle would be considered 'difficult' and 'near impossible' by some on MN.

Tiny house for 5 people, three dc with Sen, minimal savings, no holidays or little luxuries.

I grew up with money and I was desperately unhappy, whereas my kids have loving, happy parents and all the basics they need/want.

It's not an easy life but we are happy, warm, well-fed and safe.

You sound great. Long may it continue, a happy home, happy parents is worth so much.

I do think there's a distinction to be made between quality of life and material living standards. To me, the worst things we've lost - and need to regain - are free education (albeit in an altered form), affordable housing and decent healthcare. There's no need for British people to keep getting richer and richer.

I thought a robot would be doing my housework. Intead it's taking my job!
Both DC working very hard.

I absolutely agree
Both dh and I are in the private sector and got very little when we were employed by others.
Meanwhile my ds was receiving 24% employer contributions in a research position in the public sector. I could not believe it, and tbh still can’t.

I don't know what to think. My instinct is no, the standard of living can't go up and up. I don't think people with 3 children need 4 bedrooms and I don't think it's a right to eat peppers out of season.

But then, I do feel we should be able to have a balanced/nutritious diet and other countries have things they want to sell, so I don't actually know if eating peppers out of season is a disaster. Britain hasn't been self sufficient in food since the 18 century or something. So does it matter if its peppers importated instead of something in line with out own season.

I also think the housing situation is very odd. Whilst it's always been common for children to share, I cant really see why we aren't building houses people want. I don't know how our housing compares to countries with similar population density.

I do think that people should consider the wider impact before having more children than they can comfortably house / feed etc. I think big families are a luxury. I've ended up with 4 kids, but my DH and i agree that had we met earlier in life we would have stopped at 2 as that is all we could have afforded to have comfortably.

I think the sense of entitlement has risen an insane amount over the last 5 years where many people now feel like life should be served on a silver platter.

I do think that people should consider the wider impact before having more children than they can comfortably house / feed etc. I think big families are a luxury

People are considering this hence low birth rates & increase in 1 child families.

So no families with 3 kids in a 2 bed flat then? Hence more priviliged than many. My friend lived in a 3 bed terrace. There were 5 kids plus the parents. Another friend in a 4 bed maisonette. 7 kids there. That was in the 80s. All sets of parents worked

That’s your parents though

I’m the same age as them. I had colourful houses and bought what l could afford not the ‘best’

I don’t doubt that, and it still will be the case as we know over crowding is an issue, especially in cities, but I don’t think it was the norm 20 years ago and more than it is now. It was the norm in the 50s (I’m told).

It was normal in the 50s. We lived at my grans, two bed house, aunt and uncle in one room, my parents me and sibling in the other bedroom, gran on a sofa downstairs.

When my mother was pregnant with me she asked for a hospital delivery based on my sister being in the bedroom, no bathroom, toilet outside. She was told she was adequately housed and I was born at home. Apparently my uncle moaned about his sleep being disturbed with the coming and goings through the night.

I was born in 1953. I'm not sure how bad your situation had to be to justify a hospital delivery, obviously medical reasons come first.

No more of a stereotype than 'everyone has i-phones these days'.

I do accept the other poster's comment that this was before the boomers though. Maybe more my grandparents' generation, but even if the tea set was a wedding present they had to be kept in a cabinet, which not everyone might have been able to inherit.

I'm wondering if you have any kind of spreadsheet if you budget, which you could actually show your mum and she can see the breakdown of all your outgoings, and ask her where she would make savings? I honestly don't think some older parents realise about mortgage costs and the effect inflation has had when combined with years of below inflation salary increases.