To think our quality of life can’t keep going up forever?

[Wildflowers99]

I saw a post on a thread which said if you have 3 children (for example) you NEED 4 bedrooms, because children sharing a room is unacceptable in terms of their quality of life. And another saying being able to eat things like peppers out of season is essentially a right, and therefore they should have a price cap.

It got me thinking because what we expect as a basic quality of life seems very very different to even 50 years ago. But the problem is with the advent of climate change, cost of living, ageing population and so on, is it realistic for expectations to keep going up? Have we now reached a point where our quality of life will have to plateau or even reverse a bit because the economy and world cannot support what we have come to expect?

Hope that makes sense, I’m a bit zombified after a 5am start with my toddler…

When was that in the 70s? I would imagine, having been there, that the figures were very different in 1970 compared to 1979. By 1979 I didn't know a mother that wasn't working.

By 1979 I didn't know a mother that wasn't working.

Presumably you didn't know every single mother though...

It went up to 60 per cent of married women under 60 working by 1980. So changing quite fast.

The biggest difference is surely property to income ratios. My grandparents had a 5 bed semi in SW London purchased for £2500 in the 1950s.

Still way way more expensive than anything outside of London at that time. My parents’suburban detached house cost £800 in 1958. London house prices have always been on another planet.

I would imagine, having been there, that the figures were very different in 1970 compared to 1979.

I would imagine there would be changes within a decade too 😆

@ScribblingPixie but what were the figures for mothers with young dc?

I think the only things I get off that list is a meal out. Nowhere posh, live in a seaside town and we will go to a pub or a a cafe that does lunches, we don't go out for meals in the evenings. I do have amazon prime but we have it for the free shipping as DH is disabled and we do most of our shopping online, the tv is a nice extra thrown in. Last holiday abroad was I think about 18 years ago, no pets, I've had my nails done once in my life and didn't really like them and certainly wouldn't pay for them to be done regularly. I get my hair cut about twice a year, not really down to money I just dont see a trip to the hairdressers as the treat other people seem to.

I do have a smart phone, it cost £50, and my giffgaff plan is £6 a month. Last of the big spenders me.

I don't think I moan about the COL but it does shock me when I look at the price of things, I remember my gran and then my mum being like that. When I tell my GC that my first job paid £5 a week they look at me like I'm crazy.

What we do know is more mothers work now & more mothers with young dc work now.

Particularly in the 60s and 70s when things were changing fast. I look at my life in the 50s and think it probably wasn't that different to 100 years before. My life 50 years ago seems like ancient history to me let alone to my GC.

That wasn't in the paper I was reading but Google says around 50 per cent of mothers aged 25-54 worked in 1975.

Thanks that is a big change. I've lived in interesting times.

Me too. I grew up in the 1970s and there was an enormous difference in attitude between me and girls/women 10-15 years older. It seemed like for us it was all about career and being in control of our own lives with our mothers, who'd not had many opportunities, cheering us on.

That’s bollocks. It’s not the norm to have Botox and fillers. What is this? The new ‘avocados’ and ‘lattes’ used to beat down people who dare to complain about the cost of living?

We already share a car as a household, but that’s not feasible for many families. Both my DH and I shared bedrooms with parents and siblings growing up. Shoot me for wanting better for my kids.

But you can’t want better for your kids without them paying the price somewhere. Bedroom each = bigger house = more heating, climate change, higher costs, less space for the rest of the country and overcrowding.

More belongings = more manufacturing in China = climate change and expense.

No and I didn't say I did. I was commenting on how it was changing. The changes from the start of the 70s to the end were vast. At the start of the 70s there were fewer nurseries than during WWII. The lack of nurseries was one of the reasons for the playgroup movement but by the end of the 70s it was far easier to find a nursery..

There were also big changes like divorce rates, single mothers being able to keep their children. I wonder if we say on one side if you got pregnant back in the 60s you might well have to give up your baby for adoption but that is rare now, on the other hand housing was more affordable. I suppose your own experience will influence which you consider the bigger evil. Or that at the start of 70s domestic violence wasn't even recognised as an issue. Erin Pizzey opened the first refuge for women subjected to domestic violence in 1971, before then women just stayed as there were no options. I remember the documentary about her, mid 70s I suppose, and the shock it caused.

When I married in 1970 I couldn't get free contraception and a year later I had a baby. My local authority didn't provide it and it wasn't universal on the NHS until 1974. My six month private prescription cost a weeks wages and then every month it cost to actually get the pills from the chemists (we didn't have pharmacies back then) and sometimes I hadn't got the money but the lady at our local would let me have them and pay on pay day.

The world has changed. I wouldn't want to go back but I guess it is personal experience, if you were comfortably off back then it might seem tempting.

But - living standards are not going up. They haven't been since 2008. They might be for you and yours but not for the majority.

Believe me, I’m trying to do my bit as much as I can when it comes to climate change. But I hate it when it becomes an argument against millennials and gen X wanting a good standard of living.

On our road there are ten 4 bed houses. 6 of them are occupied by retired people living alone or as a couple. God forbid someone suggests they move. But it’s ok to say my kids should share a bedroom with their nana to fight climate change 😄

We already share a car as a household, but that’s not feasible for many families. Both my DH and I shared bedrooms with parents and siblings growing up. Shoot me for wanting better for my kids.

Why does “better” need to equate to more? There’s nothing wrong with kids sharing bedrooms, having one car is fine unless there’s a practical need for two.

We can’t keep ever expanding because it’s nice to have. We have finite amounts of space, resources, money, capacity - it’s not helpful to pretend otherwise.

My DD would love a bigger bedroom (she’s in a small box room), that would be great but it’s not a priority for family money, her room is perfectly acceptable as a space that’s private to her. Having a degree of contentment with our circumstances is a life skill like any other and learning that now will stand her in good stead.

Have only got this far in the thread so by now someone else may have said the same but I distinctly remember being taught in the 1970's about built in obsolescense.

I don’t see your logic. First you’re telling me off for wanting my kids to have their space. Then you say your daughter has her own room. But other people should be content with what they’ve got.

So we shouldn’t have tried to better our lives for the sake of our children because we should have been content with what we had? I think if my dc had the same conditions we had growing up, ss would get involved.

My daughter has her own room because as a 13 year old girl she can’t share with her 12 year old brother. If they were the same sex I’d have no issue with them sharing. She needs to be content with the space she has - while I could afford to give her more space it’s not remotely a need or a priority, so she’ll need to live with it.

And I wasn’t “telling you off”, I was questioning the logic of better = more.

But your daughter is not sharing a studio room with you as I did when I was growing up. She is also not sharing a bedroom with her parents as the PP did with hers. So, even though, she has a box room she does have a lot more than I or the PP had - she has her own room in a house which has more than one room.
You think it's a valuable life skill and you are concerned about finite space available but I am fairly certain you would not entertain an idea of giving up your house and moving into a studio flat with three of you sharing a combination of a pull up couch and a daybed in your living room. So there is clearly a set "minimum standard" that you expect where "better" very much equates to "more".

ETA after reading your update: there is no law suggesting that children of opposite sexes can't share the same room either. So, again, you are making the choice based on what you feel is beneficial to your children and not out of concern for finite resources.

You think it's a valuable life skill and you are concerned about finite space available but I am fairly certain you would not entertain an idea of giving up your house and moving into a studio flat with three of you sharing a combination of a pull up couch and a daybed in your living room.

If I had to in order to keep a roof over our heads, then yes I would. I’d do everything in my power to avoid losing my house, as most people would, but being housed is better than not being housed. I’m going to be downsizing at some point so space will become tighter if anything and yes, my kids will need to learn to be content with that, because wants and needs are two different things.

People are realistic - they just don't want quality of life to go down, which it has been doing since the late 1990s.

Prior to this living standards kept increasing and each generation was better off than the one before. The turnaround has a snowballing effect, the worse life gets the worse it will get, and faster too.

But other people should be content with what they’ve got.

Isn't this the crux of it! I shouldn't lower my expectations but others should 😆