To think the NHS should not be cutting funding for Anorexia and EDs if they are going to be spending ££££ on weight loss jabs

[B00kThi3f]

Anorexia and ED numbers are soaring. My daughter has battled the disease for 6 years. It kills far quicker than obesity and the sooner it is treated the better the outcome. During the last few years I have witnessed so many parents fighting for treatment and now in some severe cases patients are just being given palliative care.

Most areas are now planning cuts to specialist eating disorder services.

The fact we apparantly have ££££ to spend on weight loss jabs when children and young people are essentially being left to die is not ok and highlights a quick fix medicated approach by the NHS as opposed to longer term MH provision.

Your link doesn’t say that, quite the reverse.

Eating disorder services are shocking. That being said, I don’t quite get the comparison between weight loss meds & EDs?

First sentence of footnote 2:

The 2024/25 planned spend for children and young people’s eating disorder services in England is £101.0 million, a real terms increase of 2.9% (or £2.9 million) on the 2023/24 spend (£98.1 million).

It also notes that these figures have been adjusted for inflation, hence "real terms increase".

Yes, it's a postcode lottery as many ICBs are reducing funding but not all. So if overall funding is increasing but it's reducing in some areas, it means that it must be increasing by more than 2.9% in other areas.

Overall funding specifically for young people's eating disorders is still more than what will be spent on weight loss medications for the entire adult population. It's an absolute crying shame that so much of our health service is a postcode lottery but I think your characterisation that huge sums are being diverted from CYP eating disorder treatments to WLI is simply wrong.

I never understood why obesity isn't considered to have an eating disorder cause.

I've been diagnosed with anorexia in my teens, been underweight and overweight. Now identified as ARFID. When I was overweight I was dismissed and told to go on a diet and no problem I just need to cut down, but underweight told i was mentally ill. My disorder and issue was always the same..I just looked different with a different weight 🙃

It's horrifying to cut back on anorexia funding. As mentioned by PP recovery is better when treatment is swift and it's not left untreated..that would cut costs long-term rather then leaving it to be a chronic illness. But I also think obesity should be treated better too, I think in some situations where mental health could be compounding it, access to therapy should be offered alongside, else your creating a bandaid and not treating the cause. I always thought obesity is a side effect/symptom of something underlying, whether that's emotional/mental health or metabolic/physical issues.

It’s a moot point as spending on EDs specifically anorexia is woefully inadequate thus cutting in some areas is unacceptable and an increase of > 3% a drop in the ocean.

But a lot of the people getting the weight loss injections HAVE got an eating disorder themselves.
I've had compulsive over eating and binge eating disorder for over 20 years, I feel completely out of control about my eating, and it's terrifying. Eating to the point you feel sick or are in pain, eating things you don't even particularly like, having this contant second voice in your head constantly whispering about food. When i try to diet or even just set healthy eating boundaries, that voice stops being a whisper and becomes a shout, it takes over my every waking thought, racing round my head "FOOD FOOD FOOD!" I find myself an anxious mess clock watching, obsessing on how soon is too soon, trying to work out if i can allow myself a small snack at the next hour on the hour, how many calories max can that be, what adds up to those calories that will make me feel full enough I'm not staring at the time 15 minutes later planning the next time i can have something else etc.
It is all consuming and just as mentally taxing as bulimia and anorexia. It also has major physical health impacts, to feel like you cant get any air, be dripping sweat and feeling faint if you walk up the stairs a bit too fast, to feel your heart constantly racing, I'm lucky if my resting heartrate when asleep is under 95 beats a minute, and just sat at my laptop typing and clicking about the internet i'm typically around 115. I'm scared all the time that my heart is going to fail, i'm in constant pain from the pressure the weight puts on my joints, my lungs, i feel like a ticking time bomb, I've begged various doctors for help for years and got nothing. The most i got was a referral to a dietician, who basically just shamed me for over eating, pushed healthy vs unhealthy foods which i'm well aware of, and to drink stupid ammounts of water every time i feel hungry to make sure it's not just thirst. But thats the point, i mostly eat when i DON'T feel hungry, or even feel full, and will massively over eat any type of food not just junk, because of this compulsive voice egging me on that won't shut up and leave me alone!

The majority of people, even medical prefessionals, act like the only real eating disorders are the ones that make you incredibly thin, and the ones that make you morbidly obese at the opposite extreme end of the eating disorder scale, aren't real mental illness and its just greed and lack of willpower or laziness.
You see a very skinny person and its seen as far more beautiful and acceptable than a very fat person. They're treated with more respect, more understanding and concern, and are much less sneered at and treated like they're disgusting.

Are injectable medications, that chemically reduce your appetite and make you physically throw up if you eat more than a small portion of food at a time, and give you diarhoea, the treatment we really need most? No, it isn't, but in the majority of cases its the only treatment we are going to get, and it's ONLY funded by the NHS if your obesity is past a certain BMI, and has already led you to a point you have comorbidities like none alcoholic fatty liver, type 2 diabetes, sleep apnoea etc. Most of the people on it just for weightloss without a linked condition are not getting it via the NHS but by private prescription.

I myself haven't been offered it on the NHS despite being 5'4 and 18 stone with a BMI over 40, because I'm "only" prediabetic and not full fledged type 2.

I am really sorry the cuts have made it to anorexia and bulimia treatment, it should morally only ever expand to reach more people with more types of eating disorder. I've been in the MH system for over 20 years for other health issues, (tried for ED help and got none because they only worked with bulimia and anorexia) it was always lacking but has gotten massively worse across the board. I do know that the underweight extreme of eating disorder is deadlier much sooner than the overweight extreme, but i don't think its fair to bash people getting weight loss injections on the NHS when overall it reduces NHS spending on the other health conditions they have or would have developed, by improving or preventing those comorbidities. Those getting the injections privately and paying for it are also reducing NHS spending in the long run, so there are merits to the injections for weight loss.

They're two separate things. ED treatment should be better funded, yes, but it's not as a direct result (or even related to) the funding of GLP1 medications. And while I understand that it's frustrating, in many cases GLP1s quickly and effectively treat obesity and reduce the spend on related diseases. Funding treatment for EDs is complicated, recovery and treatment plans are slow and expensive, and there IS no quick fix available - that doesn't mean we shouldn't be applying funding for things where there is an effective treatment.

(I also don't hold any stock in the idea that the NHS is now promoting ED-like behaviour. All proper actual prescribing advice encourages you to eat healthily, ensure you don't starve yourself, get enough protein, make healthy diet and exercise choices, etc. People who are obtaining GLP1s via deception and using them to indulge in ED-like behaviour =/= the NHS encouraging it. GLP1s via the GP will be subject to being escalated through a relatively robust set of interventions, referrals to the weight management service, etc. Just because people CAN buy them off the internet and misuse them doesn't mean that's what the NHS is funding).

This thread saddens me. Your anger is palpable but misplaced.

By comparing obesity with anorexia nervosa you show you don't understand anorexia at all, although it seems to be about weight,not never really is. I have spent multiple hospital admissions with people over 20 years and not once has their illness been about weight. I also calculated how much the NHS has spent on mine treatment for anorexia alone, over £250000. That's an astonishing amount of money for one person and I am grateful I was given the opportunity. I am firmly in recovery, and in all honesty if therenwas a jab that would mean it would never return I could take weekly then sign me up!!sadly there isn't.b

Obesity is an illness that causes distress and has devastating consequences, cancer, heart disease, diabetes, sleep apnoea. Why shouldn't someone be given the opportunity to tackle their illness which will ultimately save the NHS money to them be distributed amongst other services.

I understand it's an issue close to your heart, mine also, but everyone deserves treatment and obesity is neglected, as currently we're focusing on the symptoms rather than prevention.

I think you would benefit from some therapy for the enormous stress you have been under for the past years. I say this with kindness. Anorexia destroys families.

Best wishes to you

Obese people suffer from disordered eating and as such are just as entitled to help as anorexics or any other group. If you want to take your argument to it's logical conclusion, why should the NHS help people who choose not to eat?
It helps smokers.
It helps alcoholics.
It treats people with life style related cancers.
It helps people who crash a car while pissed and smash their body to shit.

But god forbid we help fat people. They are unworthy.

Why the fuck are fat people trying to improve their heath scapegoated all the fucking time?

I voted yabu.... not because I think funding should be cut for those with eating disorders, but because I thought it was really unnecessary for you to even bring weight loss jabs into it. It smacks of a very judgmental outlook towards those who are overweight...why should they get help if others don't. It's unnecessary. You can discuss the funding for those with eating disorders on its own merit rather than trying to make comparisons.

The moon on a stick? Honestly op. Most people on weight loss jabs pay privately for them. They are a relatively recent thing....prior to them, obese people weren't being offered the moon on a stick. You sound incredibly angry. Fine, be angry about the treatment offered to those with eds, but there really is no need to direct your anger at those who are overweight.

@HowardTJMoon Yes it's good they're finally making it stricter.

People will always lie to get what they want, its basic human nature.

You cannot deny a large (pun not intended) group of people where this works because of some bad apples.

Do we remove cars from everyone because some people speed?
Do we remove knives from the kitchen because some people kill and stab?

I was just reading on the BBC the other day that they same 'always hungry' gene that labs have is also found in people. I've read on here people say that they have constant 'food noise' in their head and that the injections stop it. I think the injections are great tbh and will also save the NHS money in the long term by keeping people healthier.

That said of course I don't think there should be cuts to eating disorder services.

There is very, very limited support for people with obesity. What the NHS spends is a drop in the ocean compared to what would be required to tackle the problem. And it's very much a case of waiting and waiting until you get to a very high Bmi and a host of co-morbidities before you're entitled to any help. So I don't know where your narrative comes from. Your anger is seriously misplaced.

What makes you think obese people are getting NHS resources, OP? Last year I had a BMI of 41 and my GP offered nothing when I made an appointment asking for help. No support, no medication, nothing. Her advice was 'get a personal trainer or an energetic dog'.

I have been overweight or obese my entire adult life and never had any help from the NHS at all.

I did get the personal trainer and I pay for weight loss jabs myself. No cost to the NHS. My BMI is 33 now; I'm still going. I spend £400 a month on the jabs, the trainer and gym membership and I'll do this forever (hopefully the medication costs will come down!)

The idea that the NHS is handing out all sorts of help to obese people is wildly misinformed. There's nothing for anyone!

Well that’s a ridiculous suggestion . You’re lucky if you get treatment let alone therapy for families.

She didn't say get it on the NHS. There's no money for that, it's also went to the fatties

What would you think op if someone said it wasn't fair that a particular cancer drug wasn't available on the NHS due to cost...but anorexics get money spent on them...when all they have to do is eat therefore it's in their control in a way in which cancer isn't. Not nice is it?

There's a whole myriad of conditions and illnesses which have to be treated...some physical, some mental, some self inflicted... trying to draw comparisons and work out who is most deserving for treatment and who isn't is futile. It's just winding yourself up even more.

Pay for it?

You could always pay for it? You seem to think other people should pay for their treatments.

This was a well considered and thoughtful response from someone who has been closer to anorexia than even you are. And you met her with rudeness, completely failing to engage with what she was saying and the kindness she extended to you.

I'm not sure what your aim is in starting this thread OP but lashing out at other people, whether that's spreading misinformation and harmful narratives about other medical patients or being directly rude to people on this forum, is not the way to deal with it. You are under a lot of stress and your family is being badly let down by the sounds of things. Starting fights outside of that is not going to help you. Quite the opposite.

MN can be a great source of comfort and support, and has been for many people facing serious illness and worse. If you start a thread in good faith on the right board then I'm certain you will find that same comfort and support if you want it.

How? Supporting a young person with Anorexia impacts jobs and families.

If you want therapy op or need mental health support, there's nothing to stop you going to see your GP and requesting some help.

Fwiw, I have a DC who had various health conditions and sn which impacted my ability to work. It's not unusual.

Many people who need the jabs are similarly affected, no? Yet, you seem to think they should pay for their own treatment all the same.