To think the NHS should not be cutting funding for Anorexia and EDs if they are going to be spending ££££ on weight loss jabs

[B00kThi3f]

Anorexia and ED numbers are soaring. My daughter has battled the disease for 6 years. It kills far quicker than obesity and the sooner it is treated the better the outcome. During the last few years I have witnessed so many parents fighting for treatment and now in some severe cases patients are just being given palliative care.

Most areas are now planning cuts to specialist eating disorder services.

The fact we apparantly have ££££ to spend on weight loss jabs when children and young people are essentially being left to die is not ok and highlights a quick fix medicated approach by the NHS as opposed to longer term MH provision.

I was just coming on to say this.

Injections on the NHS are very hard to get hold of. And they are prescribed to those who are really at risk of weight related complications in the long term that cost the NHS billions in treatment and hospital admissions (diabetes, heart failure etc).

The issue of reducing funding for conditions that stem from being underweight is a separate debate.

Not minimising the impact and suffering of people with ED but around 1.8% have an eating disorder vs 68.3% either overweight or obese so you can see why resources would be more directed at the latter.

Why do you assume it’s a quick fix? Many, many people battle obesity for decades. It’s a huge killer. Weight loss jabs are relatively cheap. Of course help with obesity should be funded as much as possible. It’s not an either/ or and one is not more ‘worthy’ than the other. Of course anorexia services ought to be fully funded but not by cutting back on obesity treatment!

You seem to have missed this @B00kThi3f
Spending on anorexia isn't being cut, it's increasing. This makes your whole thread misinformation and a pointless attack on obese people, doesn't it?
What's your motivation?

As a former anorexic (recovered for 20 years) I am really saddened and appalled that anorexic patients are being given palliative care.

I think both anorexia and obesity need to be treated and I don't think its neccessarily helpful to think that the budget for treating obesity ought to be cut , ideally there should be adequate funding for both conditions

My Instagram grid suddenly seems full of pro Ana pages and I don't know what changed the algorithm to do that. Whilst I've been recovered for a long time I find it upsetting and also concerning the volume of accounts there are. (I also think MN seems quite pro Ana at times and I deliberately don't read some threads aside know they will be unhelpful )

💛low calorie consumption is very harmful for people who are already thin/slim. If you are obese, cutting calories can really help you improve health, but even on the jabs it's not recommended to go below 1500, with the absolute lowest being 1200. Most obese people on the jabs are aiming for 1500cal per day.

If you are already slim, then your body needs the fuel to function, going lower than 1000 to 1200 cals per day for an already slim person is dangerous and will result in all sorts of complications including that the heart may eventually just shut down and you will die.

I understand where you are coming from. But please take care of yourself. The ED specialists who advised you to keep your calories up were advising this in your best interests. They want to keep you alive and healthy.

Weight loss jabs are for overweight and obese people to get them back into the 20 to 25 BMI range.

Please take care, please don't read or watch things about the jabs which are triggering. Focus on you and on keeping your BMI above 19. That's the healthiest and best place you can be. Don't worry about everyone else, their journeys are not your journey.

💛💐

They are contributing to the cost - it's called paying tax.

I don't agree that they are not connected.

They are hugely connected.

Seeing already slim celebs using the drugs will be extremely triggering for ED patients, and even just hearing about this drug which suppresses appetite will be triggering and likely worsen the symptoms for ED patients.

For those ED sufferers who try to inject with these drugs, the consequences could be fatal.

They are very much linked. Funding one group (weight loss injections) WILL negatively impact the other group and cause costs if their care to rise.

I believe that we absolutely NEED to ensure weight loss jab advertising is controlled, there needs to be tighter control of social media, access to these drugs needs to be much MUCH tighter, and we need a strategy to support ED patients with managing this new wave of WL drugs and including education around WL drugs in ED treatment and resources.

We cannot think of one without the other. We also need to massively address the underfunding in ED in this country, and currently there needs to be much more research on better treatments for ED because in 2025 we are still seeing disproportionate numbers of people dying of the disorder or enduring these disorders for YEARS.

£1098 is what it costs the NHS per person on the maximum dose of semaglutide/tirzepatide for 9 months of treatment. Not per month, for the full 9 months. They must have a BMI over 35 and at least one related health condition. 250,000 people should be prescribed within the first 3 years. Obesity costs the NHS £6.5b pa and is the second biggest preventable cause of cancer. Don't we treat preventable cancer causes? It costs the economy approximately £100b for contrast.

Endometriosis treatment approximately £17k, surgery not the medication, no guarantee it works either, 10+ year wait. Costs economy £8.2b pa. PCOS costs NHS a further £137m pa. Both of these can be helped with weight loss. Both make it difficult to lose weight.

Add Type 2 diabetes to that ... you get the picture.

NHS funding even some of these injections saves in the long term.

My region has started prescribing for T2, just not my part of it. You'll be happy to know my GP advised me to go private last year, after 3 years of being on the waiting list (approved for diabetic use Jan 2019) Or move. So I have been forced to contribute, in full to the cost. Still bedridden with endo 3 full days ever 27 days. Still diabetic. Still got PCOS. Still overweight because the WLI haven't helped me lose weight because I was already eating healthily average 1500-1700 kcals a day for years.

Its disgraceful that your daughter and other people can't get services they desperately need. However I'm not sure it's helpful to set up one health cost in competition with another. I mean, why not ED versus cancer treatment? Money is being spent on addressing obesity not because people die more quickly, but because it costs more while people are alive. Tackling obesity before it becomes more of a drain on health services should, in theory at least, free up money for treatment for other diseases.

There is very little understanding of anorexia outside of the families who have experienced it. Comparing the death rate to that of many cancers is eye opening. I think there is a bit of a feeling that its a white middle class girl issue and they just need to snap out of it. Or a FFS just eat more and you'll be fine attitude.

It is a very complex MH disorder which can be treated. However, recovery is unlikely without support and suicide is a real risk.

I wasn't aware of this decision and I can't understand it. I'm so sorry OP.

@9ToGoal So £1,098 x 250,000 over three years is, what, £91.5M a year?

Current spending on treatments for eating disorders for children and young people is £101M a year.

@B00kThi3f does that make you feel any better? Or do you still think that obese people are getting "the moon on a stick"?

Seems a false equivalency to me.

MH conditions in the UK are woefully underfunded, as is funding for a lot of physical conditions - hence the immense waiting lists.

As others have said, the funding for weight loss drugs is not being taken from elsewhere. Health funding is incredibly complex, but in its simplest form, they've identified weight loss injections as an invest to save.

If co-morbidities currently cost the NHS £2 billion a year, but investing £10 million in weight loss injections a year means that in five years time that will be halved to £1 billion a year, then it is a very good thing (and will make more money available for other conditions like ED in the long term). - (Caveat - numbers completely made up just as an example)

The problem is it is very difficult to make the same invest to save calculations for MH conditions - there needs to be a lot more research and understanding of how they can be identified earlier and what interventions can be put in place early to save the money down the line. Unfortunately the triggers and early warning signs are not well understood to be able to do that effectively for any mental health condition.

I'd like to see more of an investment in school and community counsellors - there is not much I admire about the American school system, but I do like the fact that many secondary schools have counsellors on staff that students can access when they need to for early support and a lot more awareness being raised among young people about things like Kooth (think along the lines of Esther Ranson and Childline adverts from the 80's and 90's).

We need to get some of the key social media influencers onto it (because as much as I hate it, it really is a good way to get through to kids) - get people like KSI, the Sidemen, Mr.Beast and KMK involved in campaigns and you would reach a lot more young people who would then be able to get help earlier.

If we did that, along with looking at other things that are equivalent to weight loss injections where investment now will save a lot more later it would take a lot less time to get the NHS on track and make sure the money is there to treat more severe conditions.

Unfortunately, the system has been so decimated from years of underfunding and unnecessary change that it lacks the capacity to be creative.

The government could also fund it quite easily. However there is such a lack of understanding about how national debt works, with most people believing it works the same as household budgets, that if the government borrowed the necessary funds to do this, Reform and all of the other anti-public sector folks would have a field day!

Edited to caveat about costing being made up as an example

Most people using the injections ARE being forced to pay for them. It's a tiny minority of people that get them on the NHS.

Cheaper than not providing them.

@FortyElephants They should. Take them until people are at a sensible weight then stop. The risks become too high then.

@HowardTJMoon But people shouldn't be able to lie, there shouldn't be loopholes. They should have to do a video call or in person appointment. So yes they do just give them to anyone.

Im so sorry to hear you are struggling with getting your Daughter help, there is nothing more frustrating than battling to get help when people aren't listening.

But at the same time I promise, despite what the media might be saying, the NHS are not funding weight loss injections for many people at all and in fact are cutting ALL services to help people.

I have a number of health issues and my endocrinologist was fighting so hard for me to have WLI because she felt they would help me (I have hormone issues and a number of other problems which are a massive barrier) and essentially our whole county just cancelled tier 3 weight loss support so the only thing they offer is a 12 week online weight loss support and when I tried to explain to them my complex medical history and presented the food diary showing I had already been eating exactly the way they were advising for 6 months with no success, they had no way to help because they were more or less online slimming world.

My endocrinologist even asked for me to be sent to a different county to get WLI but no one could help. I now get them myself by funding them with credit cards and when kind people use my code it helps a little. But my doctor was the tier 3 weight loss specialist and she said they are so frustrated by the cuts in funding and when she sees people who need help, she cant do a thing and is so frustrated herself.

I promise there isn't massive funding for one thing and not another, services as a whole are struggling and in my county at least, weight loss support is minimal with very long weights and no knowledge of complex medical histories. I am one of the lucky ones that can fund it myself, but many are left struggling.

I hope you manage to find some support.

YANBU to expect better treatment for anorexia however it is simply not the case that the NHS are spending £££ on WLI

You know people do pay towards their NHS prescriptions right?

Nope it's £2.75m per 250,000 people for treatment in 3 years. It's 9 months treatment not 3 years. Expected 20% weight loss - eg average height woman at 100kg BMI 39 to 80kg BMI 31.2 - should knock a few of them into class 1 obesity (BMI 30) reducing risks of heart disease, high blood pressure, multiple cancers, bone and joint issues etc.

Not sure £2.75m will treat 250,000 with EDs but with £101M for around 3 million people (including adults) I don't think the budget is unfair as it stands.

What are you even talking about? This is a long term treatment for a chronic condition. What risks are you referring to? And what are your qualifications to assert this so confidently?

OP clearly believes there are deserving people (including those with ED) and undeserving people (obese people) when it comes to NHS resources.

I don’t know why but I think we could all hazard a guess.

You can't make things foolproof against people who are committed to doing something very foolish.

That being said you should be pleased that pharmacies are indeed required to do video calls or in-person appointments to try to reduce the risk to people like your friend who are determined to do themselves harm - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yeklrer39o

Then you aren’t paying attention - I’ve commissioned in MH and Substance Use - MH gets a lot more money - but, as with all NHS services, need is growing and services can’t keep up. Anything preventative - including WL medication, is very much needed to reduce demand so funding can be directed to in need areas.