DD’s nightmare flatmate.

[Timble]

Hi all,
do you know if landlords or agents have a responsibility to protect tenants?
do tenants have any rights at all?

my DD is in her third year. Living with three lovely girls and one who they are all terrified of.
she has locked them all out, refusing to let them in (I wasn’t told until the next day and told DD she should have rang the police at the time). She’s rude, threatening. Makes a lot of noise in the middle of the night. She keeps calling the girls racist (there has been no racist comments towards this girl aside from this girl constantly calling them ‘stupid white girls’ or similar. She messages the girls regularly to tell them to stay out of her way or they’ll regret it. To shut up and be quiet or she’ll make them. (No loud noises, they’re all in their third year and studying hard/on placements). All the other girls now want to move out as they can’t face living with her anymore. I just can’t believe we have to pay and even though they’ve reported this girl to the estate agents and they’ve had meetings nothing has changed. They believe this girl has been kicked out of uni and hasn’t paid rent but they don’t have proof.

my DD is 20 and she manages most issues herself/with the other flatmates but currently she’s had enough and needs help.
I guess it’s not really an AIBU but can we refuse to pay last terms rent or we pay and chalk this up to a horrendous experience? No idea where dd will live if she moves out!!

thank you xx

It’s not he said she said, they have evidence - texts with threats. Police can look at the texts and see if they meet the threshold for threatening behaviour and advise the girls how to deal with it. It will mean the uni can’t ignore with the issue. - If the matter was reported to the police, uni took no action and one of the girls was attacked for example it would be on them.

Let's see how you can possibly twist the "watch your backs" comments. What about the locking them out?

Your posts are reading things into perfectly ordinary practices @FrauPaige It’s very normal to want to meet someone you’re going to be living with. It’s not normal to respond to a friendly invitation to meet up with a flat refusal accompanied by a query about the other tenants’ ethnicity.

Unless you’re assuming the other tenants are white supremacists?

The girl asked whether the interviewing panel members (your daughter and friends) would have any people of colour on it as she felt convinced that she would not pass the popularity test otherwise - due to her historical experience of racism.
So you are accusing this girl of racism because she was concerned about suffering racism

How do you know all this for sure?! It amuses me when posters on MN speak with such conviction on situations they know nothing about!

As a person of colour myself, I would not have reacted like this girl did. Stop making such definite assumptions. It’s arrogant.

Was she a stranger? How did they find her - I assume it’s a joint tenancy?

And if it is a joint tenancy you are out of luck. Just have to deal with it but also call the police every time she is being abusive / locking them out etc.

What kind of tenancy arrangement is it when the landlord can impose somebody on them? I assume separate agreements?

Anything nothing that can be done.

So you are disputing that flatmate interviews are unpleasant for prospective renters? Ever lived in London as a young professional? If not, let Google be your friend

Again, I am merely using my brain to imagine what this person may have been thinking - not making a judgement on anyone's character.

We need to separate our aversion to being labelled racist from our ability to assess a situation from all angles.

Why would I seek to defend her every action?

And you forgot pooing with the door open.

Again, I am merely using my brain to imagine

It is fine to ‘imagine’ and suggest. You keep presenting why she is doing what she is doing as ‘fact’.

But as I read it, they were informed by the estate agent that she was moving in, so there was no shallow grave style interview (I had one of those in 2003 or so, luckily passed due to commenting on the football match tht was on tv at the time). They had no choice, so she wasn't going to be excluded by them due to racism. And saying what she did would immediately put me on edge..

OP, Docusign usually sends a certificate to authenticate signatures apparently. You usually receive an email with a link in it to see the document/certificate.

Lots of info on DocuSign forums.

If you all signed that document (at least what, 8 signatories?) the EA should be able to send you proof eg the certificate, emails asking you to sign, an email from one of you to the EA. If they’ve got a signed document there will be correspondence relating to it they can produce. If they’ve refuse that tells you something! Did you set up a DocuSign account?

“With Docusign - there would need to be a document certificate to be valid. The certificate contains all the details of the document.
The certificate contains the following:

1. Name of the sender
2. Physical address of the sender
3. IP address of the sender
4. Email of the sender
5. Date of sending
6. Name of the receipient
7. Signature chosen
8. IP address of the receipient
9. Email of the receipient
10. Date of signature

Also a signed document should have a valid digital signature.” https://www.reddit.com/r/cybersecurity/comments/iuqd7c/how_do_you_prove_that_your_signature_was_forged/ www.reddit.com/r/cybersecurity/comments/iuqd7c/how_do_you_prove_that_your_signature_was_forged/]]]]

https://community.docusign.com/esignature-111/how-to-prove-forged-and-scanned-docusign-documents-20030

@murasaki No the DD and her friends could not find another flatmate, and the estate agent suggested a woman who had contacted the agent asking about a room. They had a choice.

Ah right, sorry in that case. I was unclear as to whether they'd actually met her before her moving in or just exchanged messages after the estate agent put her forward. They needed to fill the room to avoid paying more so probably just said 'fine' . I would have as a student.

OP, do move your daughter out, but be prepared (since it seems you have a joint and several tenancy) that you can be pursued for any damage this girl does to the house, as well as the rent she hasn't paid. You can then take her guarantors to court to recoup it, but good luck with that.

Yes, do hold onto those semantics if it makes you feel better.

Look up the purview doctrine - a guarantor cannot be held liable for a guarantee which has materially changed since it was granted. You may find that a new tenant who was unknown to you constitutes exactly that - you couldn’t vouch for her financial status. I wouldn’t be expecting to pay on that basis.

That is a good point. If the signatures are dated the same day as the original contract with the friend, who never moved in, the EA has somehow fudged this. Idk how. Idk enough about docusign. If the girls do end up moving out, I would get some advice from a solicitor as to whether or not they are liable to pay. As there are 4 girls, you parents will hopefully be able to split the cost for legal advice.

No, it’s not semantics. Some of your posts are a bit silly when you are just guessing what the girl was thinking, but presenting it as fact.

Da fuk?

@BlueBatsAndOranges You couldn't have said it better. That post was utterly batshit yet said with such authority! I had no idea how "let's meet up as we're going to be living together" became a "housemate interview", which is a moot point anyway as the nasty tenant was forced on them. Ludicrous.

It's not university accommodation?

They're third years

I missed the concrete evidence bit, fair comment

Any update OP?

A parent moving in for a bit is a great idea.