DD’s nightmare flatmate.

[Timble]

Hi all,
do you know if landlords or agents have a responsibility to protect tenants?
do tenants have any rights at all?

my DD is in her third year. Living with three lovely girls and one who they are all terrified of.
she has locked them all out, refusing to let them in (I wasn’t told until the next day and told DD she should have rang the police at the time). She’s rude, threatening. Makes a lot of noise in the middle of the night. She keeps calling the girls racist (there has been no racist comments towards this girl aside from this girl constantly calling them ‘stupid white girls’ or similar. She messages the girls regularly to tell them to stay out of her way or they’ll regret it. To shut up and be quiet or she’ll make them. (No loud noises, they’re all in their third year and studying hard/on placements). All the other girls now want to move out as they can’t face living with her anymore. I just can’t believe we have to pay and even though they’ve reported this girl to the estate agents and they’ve had meetings nothing has changed. They believe this girl has been kicked out of uni and hasn’t paid rent but they don’t have proof.

my DD is 20 and she manages most issues herself/with the other flatmates but currently she’s had enough and needs help.
I guess it’s not really an AIBU but can we refuse to pay last terms rent or we pay and chalk this up to a horrendous experience? No idea where dd will live if she moves out!!

thank you xx

My daughter had pretty much the exact situation. It was an absolute nightmare. The other housemates were locked out of the house at 11pm at night (they were all returning home from hospitality jobs. The police were called on several occasions and we have video of him trying to break my dd's bedroom door down. Dd spent several months absolutely terrified.

They must call the police every single time. Because it isn't classed as domestic violence there is little you can do (mad but that's the law)

They were coming towards the end of their tenancy so in the end everyone moved out and sofa surfed with friends. They lost about 2 months rent.

the weird part is they have a contract with the new girl on it that has their signatures on but none of the girls remember signing it. They are looking through emails where they were asked to sign something as they think the letting agent just took their previous signatures and added the new girls. Of course they may have signed and just forgotten but no guarantors have signed!

Thats very odd and would make sense as I (and others) couldn't understand how the situation arose at all
I very much doubt all of them would have forgotten signing it and the fact that the guarantors have not signed is both worrying but may also work out to not be a bad thing
Hopefully the Uni will be able to advise. Some universities with a law school do a free law clinic once a month for anyone who needs advice, usually studenst with with oversight so it could be worth looking into that as well.

I do find it interesting that hardly anyone is willing to tackle the racial element of this situation. This girl has verbally asserted more than once, that their race is a big part of her attitude/behaviour towards them. Can you imagine if the races were reversed and this was a white girl behaving this way towards a cohort of black or brown girls?

When one flatmate changed in dd's student house everyone including guarantors, had to sign again and we were all sent copies. It was via Docusign. I would definitely ask for proof that the new contract was signed by all parties.

The original question asking if they were all white was odd and my dd had no clue why she was asking. I said perhaps she is not white (they had no idea) and she’s feeling vulnerable etc. they honestly tried so hard to make her feel included. She didn’t say anything else about race then but there have been comments about stupid white girls. I don’t think any more comments than that but yes it riles me!

Yes I am definitely going to. Going through the contract now it says if rent is unpaid for 14 days landlord can remove the person. The others don’t think she has paid and it breaks GDPR but when a boyfriend if one of the girls contacted the lettings agent (nightmare flatmate had left food on the hob and set all alarms off along other things) the letting agent said ‘we are in contact with X regarding rent payments’ which to me says she’s not paying! Obv could be wrong!

There’s no indication that race is an aspect of her hostility towards them. The girl merely asked if they were all white. It’s not an odd question to ask for a person of colour.

Initially asking if they were all white was maybe not racist though I wonder if reversed it would be deemed racist. I.e are you all black? I wouldn’t say there has been a lot of racism but she has on several occasions called them stupid white girls.

Terrifying!! I hope my youngest never has to go through this. She’s in her first year and luckily found a property with current housemates and they all get along. Fingers crossed anyway!

So if all their names are on the contract it would suggest they are jointly and severally liable for the whole of the rent??

I'm glad your DD and flatmates are going to see an expert at their university @Timble Professional Services staff will have experience of this sort of situation - it is less are than you might think, sadly.

The young woman sounds quite ill. I hope that this may be a trigger to get her some help. At my university, University secutrity & welfare staff will go to students' houses/flats to check, if they think a student is a danger to themselves or others.

And I am slightly flabbergasted at some PPs' interpretations of this as a girls ganging up on one flatmate situation. The messages that your DD has received are bullying and threatening.

Thank you so much. Parenting at any age is bloody hard isn’t it!! If this girl does have issues I genuinely hope she gets the help she needs. Genuinely. I just want my dd to be able to end her final year on a less negative note!!

I called the lettings agent and pretended I was interested in a property for my daughter. Asking about contract types, they say they mostly do individual lettings and it would be each persons guarantor that has to cover costs not the rest of the house. I just can’t see anything in this contract that states if it’s individual or not.

If the gaurators haven't signed the new contract surely your daughter can move out & stop paying with no consequences? Pain to move out but sounds the only solution

It's also the first thread in years that I've read on here where no-one has suggested autism.

The students have signed something but they don’t remember doing it. It’s in the contract through docusign. They’re trying to find any emails from lettings agents asking them to sign new contract. They haven’t found anything. They do remember signing the initial one though. We definitely did not sign anything else.

It sounds less like autism, and more like the start of a psychotic episode.

And I guess the race thing - I know I tend to try to avoid the 'reverse racism' accusation, because it is demonstrably harder for young black British people, and especially young black women, in Britain. A PP comments on this upthread.

Yes, the other woman's statements about "stupid white girls' are nasty and othering, but I'm not sure there's the same system of everyday & constant oppression in play. <putting my tin hat on>

I don't think it's autism. I was just saying it's honestly the first thread I've read in years that doesn't blame autism for certain behaviours'

Bollocks. It’s a weird question as her opening gambit. And the OP says she has also made comments about “stupid white girls”. If it was the other way round, you’d be up in arms.

However, the racial element here is arguably the least important thing, the threats, locking them out, etc, are completely unhinged behaviours making them feel unsafe in their home.

The girks obviously dont like being called stupid white girls and it borders on racism I think but they aren’t too bothered about that part. Mostly the watch your backs comments that concern them.

Good plan.

In my experience of guaranteeing half a dozen flatshares for our DC in three different cities over several years they all made each guarantor liable for all the rent from all the tenants. It's to the LL's advantage and it was standard in every tenancy and guarantor agreement. But you absolutely have to read the small print. More than once we were assured we were only liable for our own DC's rent. Nope. Agents are clueless and/or unreliable. They are paid by the LL and are not acting in your interests.

We went into it with our eyes open as trying to negotiate with LLs and or agents is a non-starter (despite being confident in doing so due to our day jobs), accommodation is nearly always in great demand and tenants have to sign up very quickly to secure it. The young people, understandably, just want to move in and not have 'that parent' who causes the whole deal for them and their mates to fall apart.

It felt more comfortable when they were students, some flatmates were already friends and we knew that, at worst, everyone would be leaving in the summer and there was some chance of involving the uni if necessary.

But as young grads moving in with complete unknowns we felt very exposed. Fortunately they have been working long enough now to have an established record of income and rental payments and no longer need a guarantor.

The alternative, if parents can afford it, is to simply pay the whole year's rent upfront in order to avoid being a guarantor for everyone else in the flat.

this is quite right- girls to diarise from now on, speak to recommended Uni staff, then agent and L/L, preferably together at the agents office. And they'll want to speak to the girls as well as/ instead of parents, otherwise its all 3rd hand reports/ deniable. Recommendations to call the police are a waste of time at this point. Nothing has happened that they can do anything about -its a 'she said /she said'. And also does sound like a mental health issue , with a racial / cultural element, so you don't need to be putting bullets in this girl's gun to fire back at you. Uni for backup (girls), agent / L/L (parents and girls) to sort out.

The reason why the girl asked whether your daughter and her fellow housemates were "white" was because she perceived that your daughter's invitation for drinks before moving in was intended to be a house share interview. Which it possibly was.

House share interviews are a popularity contest that not many people enjoy - the power balance being in the hands of the existing residents.

The girl asked whether the interviewing panel members (your daughter and friends) would have any people of colour on it as she felt convinced that she would not pass the popularity test otherwise - due to her historical experience of racism.

So you are accusing this girl of racism because she was concerned about suffering racism.

If the difficult roommate does have MH crisis happening … the other girls can’t be expected to understand or know correct responses or actions to take. They cannot be expected to be anything other than people who share living space.

The other girls can alert the university, the police/emergency services that there is a potential problem/safeguarding issue.

They need to keep themselves and their own things safe, so locking doors, wearing earplugs & doing what they can until someone else takes responsibility for her. Organize their lives to study & socialize away from flat as much as possible.

Best keep clear of her so that they don’t get involved in whatever her issues are.

It’s sad that she is suffering with no support, but it’s not flatmates job to support her. It would be unfortunate indeed if no family or services step in before things get worse.