DD’s nightmare flatmate.

[Timble]

Hi all,
do you know if landlords or agents have a responsibility to protect tenants?
do tenants have any rights at all?

my DD is in her third year. Living with three lovely girls and one who they are all terrified of.
she has locked them all out, refusing to let them in (I wasn’t told until the next day and told DD she should have rang the police at the time). She’s rude, threatening. Makes a lot of noise in the middle of the night. She keeps calling the girls racist (there has been no racist comments towards this girl aside from this girl constantly calling them ‘stupid white girls’ or similar. She messages the girls regularly to tell them to stay out of her way or they’ll regret it. To shut up and be quiet or she’ll make them. (No loud noises, they’re all in their third year and studying hard/on placements). All the other girls now want to move out as they can’t face living with her anymore. I just can’t believe we have to pay and even though they’ve reported this girl to the estate agents and they’ve had meetings nothing has changed. They believe this girl has been kicked out of uni and hasn’t paid rent but they don’t have proof.

my DD is 20 and she manages most issues herself/with the other flatmates but currently she’s had enough and needs help.
I guess it’s not really an AIBU but can we refuse to pay last terms rent or we pay and chalk this up to a horrendous experience? No idea where dd will live if she moves out!!

thank you xx

I really wished they’d thought to call the police when she locked them out!! She was laughing on the other side of the door.

I am a landlord. If I had five tenants, one of whom was a pain and causing the other four to leave, I would eject the troublesome tenant. It all depends on the contract the tenant has, or if it is a shared tenancy agreement (many variables).

Ultimately, the landlord is likely to be less interested until the estate agent makes it his problem. If it were me, I would be calling the estate agent daily until either the situation gets resolved, or I could leave.

They are limited in some ways, they won't be able to make the other person leave for example. But they might have experience in situations like this, will be able to offer the OPs guidance on next steps and what she can and can't do, and importantly they should be able to support the OPs daughter and her flatmates. They might even have suggestions of alternative accommodation.

Your DD should speak to the Student Union at her university. They will have seen this before (sadly it’s not Rae behaviour) and can advise and support.

Good luck. It’s horrible when flatmates fall out.

I’m not even sure the estate agents passed on the girls initial worries to the landlord. I wonder how much he’d care? Even if 4 girls move it, would he care if they still have to pay? All I can think of is to threaten with awful reviews about their handling of this situation. Lame and will do nothing much as students will need properties but it might make me feel better.

I think that’s the worst thing. They’re all 4 nice girls (not perfect) but honestly they knew she was going to be a nightmare straight away and they tried so hard to stop that, inviting her over, out for drinks etc but she was vile. The messages are so bad I actually worry about the safety of the girls. She also locks them out of the kitchen when she’s cooking so they can’t go in!

You haven’t answered whether they all have separate contracts or whether it’s a joint tenancy.

If they were planning to stay for another year he would care. Tenants that look after the place are always preferable to new ones as the new ones are unknown.

Not being sure that the estate agent is doing their job is the point of calling daily. It doesn't have to be fractious, but make them feel the pain a bit. You shouldn't have to, but they may act eventually.

Look carefully through the contract as there may be a clause that you can either use to leave early, or demonstrate that the troublesome person is in breach of the agreement.

Surely if it's student only accommodation and this girl is no longer a student, she should have been served notice to move out?

I thought I had, they have individual contracts and parents as guarantors.

Is it an HMO where they rent individual rooms? Or are they co tenants share a flat?

So it’s not student accommodation
like ‘halls’ it’s an estate agents that only deals in properties for students. Nothing to do with the university.

I know what you're saying but these days when many parents are paying substantial sums towards their young person's student accommodation I think they have every right to want to try to help to resolve a situation like that and make sure their money isn't at risk in some way. I mean, if it gets that bad where it's jeopardizing your kid's education.....

Has her behaviour been bad enough that they can get a non-mol/occupation order?

The looking them out and false accusations etc?

What an absolute weirdo she is. The world's gone mad when the other girls have to live like this

DH just said that the contract we signed was when the original girl was supposed to be moving in. We signed nothing relating to this current girl. Not sure if that means Jack shit but I’m trying everything!!

It’s all threats, there’s been nothing physical but they worry it could turn that way. She’s very intimidating. At uni she will give them the death stare and point at them and laugh.

I know. I’d be fine if it was just a girl they didn’t get on with as that happens of course it does but to be scared in your home is just no acceptable.

Unfortunately an estate agent is unlikely to do anything and even if they were so inclined, legally it is very difficult.

If all the tenants are on fixed term ASTs the only way to remove a tenant before the end of the tenancy is by issuing them with a section 8 notice (based on breaking terms on acceptable behaviour in their tenancy agreement). The problem is that this can take months and if the tenant refuses to leave can cost thousands in court and bailiffs fees. Even if it does go to court, there is no guarantee that the court will find against the tenant. This is why most landlords use section 21 notices (no fault eviction) as although it takes longer you are more likely to get the problem tenant out. However this isn't an option until the fixed term has expired.

In non student HMOs where all the tenants have moved onto periodic tenancies and there is a risk that the bad tenant drives all the other tenants out it is not unheard of for landlords to pay the problem tenant to leave.

Assuming that if it is a student tenancy they all have fixed term agreements, therefore there is actually no financial incentive for the estate agent to act against the problem tenant as the other tenants are legally tied in to paying rent until the end of their fixed term.

It is one area where tenancy law not discriminating between standard lets and shared housing can be very problematic, because of the difficulties protecting tenants from problem housemates.

Speaking to the uni is a good call as they may have sanctions they can issue if the other tenant is still a student. If not, unfortunately the police may be the next call.

I'm so sorry this is happening to your DD and her friends, it's a horrible situation and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

Could they ask her to move out? Then find new person or split between them.

They could suggest it that the person in question isn't happy etc, so give them a get out clause.

Clear is kind.

They will all have individual contracts regardless of whether it's joint tenancy or individual tenancies.

If the trouble maker is no longer a student then the university can do nothing about her behaviour. But they can, as others have said, offer advice about dealing with the situation. Citizens Advice may also be able to help.

I can't see the estate agent having anything to do with it. If they did they'd be dealing with spats all the time. Their job is to rent out the property and presumably to maintain it.

She definitely wouldn’t move out. I think she enjoys scaring them too much. I mean all other parents have said if they get rid of her we will pay for the last bit of rent between us. If she isn’t paying maybe the landlord would go for this? In all honesty if she gets kicked out I’m not sure she’d take it lightly and may be one even harder to be safe from?

They could have a look at their leases and talk to the landlord. If the landlord is an experienced letter to students, they may be prepared to help. If she’s not paid her rent, then they can serve notice to evict. It might mean that the remaining 4 girls will need to cover the total rent though.

It sounds as though her behaviour is breaking terms of the lease around access and quiet enjoyment.

It also sounds as though she’s very dysfunctional as a human being.

The other 4 flatmates may need to stop being nice. They should screenshot abusive messages and perhaps find ways of countering her borderline violent behaviour How is it possible to lock them out, for example? The landlord might be able to help there.

There are 3 adult women with an issue with 1 adult woman

I can not believe that you’re suggesting an EA or LL get involved in this.

and third years… so I’m guessing at some point they were good friends and have known one another for some time?

If they are on individual tenancies this is unlikely to help you. The contract your DD will have signed is for her room with the right to use the communal areas in the property. Your guarantor's agreement will relate to this document.

The fact that another tenant had changed would only be relevant if your DD had signed a joint AST and that is the tenancy you had agreed to be guarantor for.