to cancel my boyfriend's holiday

[Bumblelion]

Brief history :- I am a mum to 3 children, husband (not divorced yet but living apart, moved on, etc.) and boyfriend. Boyfriend has 2 children (1 he sees, 1 he doesn't).

When husband left, changed mortgage to interest only (lots of equity in the house), since changed back to repayment (15 months now).

I work part-time and like/deserve my holidays.

Went to Tenerife at Easter for 1 week (children spent one week at their dads), went away for the next week but eldest daughter (15) didn't want to come - wanted to see her school friends/boyfriend, etc. so me, my mum and 2 youngest went to Tenerife. Eldest DD stayed with her dad (part week) and my boyfriend (part week).

Have also booked to go to Tenerife half term week in October with myself, my mum, my 3 children, my brother and his 3 children (all 'roughly' the same age). My eldest is looking forward to Tenerife in October as she will be with her cousin.

Have also booked to go to Turkey for 2 weeks on 19 August (again me, my mum, my boyfriend, my 3 children). Eldest again doesn't want to come as she will be at her dads for 2 weeks and then we go away for 2 weeks and she will not see her friends/boy friend.

My boyfriend has not been away with me for the last 2/3 years as he cannot afford it - owes me £10,000 (yes, ten thousand) and my mum £15,000 (yes, fifteen thousand) and his mum £20,000 (yes, twenty thousand - she remortgaged) as he started his own company (now closed) and had cash flow problems (don't we all!).

(1) My eldest doesn't want to go to Turkey for 2 weeks after spending 2 weeks at her dads - hates the sun, hates a sun-tan, etc., (2) my 2 youngest have had one week in Tenerife with me and my mum, and (3) all my children will have 1 week in Tenerife (different hotel, different resort) in October.

When I booked the holiday (last November), my boyfriend knew what it was costing, I paid the deposit (only £300) for all of us and he know when the holiday was due to be paid (27 May) - now he tells me he doesn't have the money and can I pay for it and he will pay me back (like all the other money he owes me, I think not!!).

Today, after speaking to my mum, I am thinking of cancelling Turkey for all of us and I will go away with my mum for 2 weeks when the children are with their dad.

... so am I being unreasonable to cancel the 'family' holiday (my boyfriend included) and just go with my mum (the children don't care either way - they don't need holidays like I do!)

FFS! BIn him immediately and take legal action against him. He is a THIEF. He has STOLEN from you and from your mother. He's probably got a long track record of doing the same thing to all his previous partners, as well.

Madamez i was just sat here thinking that!

And if he's living with his mum (and you), pretty much all of his earnings is disposable income. Even if he was earning £7500 a year, he'd be taking home £580 per month. Yet he pays no bills, and likely no rent. Where is all of that going that he cant afford to pay any of you back or pay for a holiday?

Get rid. Tell him you dont want him back unless/until he commits to paying you back/contributing to the household. If he sods off, that's a bonus IMVHO.

Blimey, Bumblelion - he has behaved very very badly. In fact he has conned you, and your Mum.

Start by not paying for the hol, then progress to seeing whast you can do to get repayment of the money.

I am no expert on any of this, but advice columns in newspapers usually start by finding out if you have any evidence at all that he owes you money, and that it was a loan.

Without making him suspicious, can you get anything in writing do you think?

An e mail or note - if you write 'hiya hun, don't mean to pressurise you, but now that you are starting your job could we have a little chgat about a manageable re-payment scheme for the £ks that you borrowed? It's causing me some hassle...and you know i'm a bit broke. Let's agree something, at least, then we can talk about the hol'.

If he acknowledges the letter at all it counts as evidence that there is a debt.

Then consult CAB or a lawyer or find out about small claims - then - sorry - you have to dump him. You need someone who respects you - not someone who treats your family like a ATM.

I don't get why your mum lent him all that money if you didn't even know about it. Are they close? What made her think she'd get it back?

Let me explain - he conned her - he is very good with his mouth (but not in the oral sex sense) - he is very confident, very talkative but only says what he wants, not what I want to hear.

My mum lent him money because she honestly thought she would get it back (because he told her so) - she believed him.

Another story - my friend's boyfriend did my fencing for me. Because my boyfriend owed me money, he paid for the fencing (but really I paid for it as it was money he owed me). My friend's boyfriend got an outstanding bill and could not work out where it came from. After long negotiations, we (me and my friend) realised that it was my boyfriend's cheque which had bounced!!! I then paid for my fencing.

When I read this back, it brings home to me my feelings (if any) for him and what is it he brings to my life! Not much, except debt!

Bumble - yes, debt, but also the fact that he is using you as a route to your friends and family and conning them will very soon cause you to lose a lot of friends and the good relationship with your family. REally bad of him to have caused such an embarrassing situation over the fence.

I think you have to talk with your Mum - does she realise that she has been conned? How does she view you having a relationship with someone who has (effectively) stolen from her?

Does he have a gambling habit or something?

"The trouble is that I have something to drink (to get the balls up to ask him questions)"

this concerns me very, very much

you need to have this conversation with him again and you need to be definite

do not chat about it, come to the conversation with a piece of paper and on it, have written down exactly what he owes everyone

then have a list drawn up with his pay, and outgoings

do not end the conversation till you have filled in the gaps

do not drink in order to do this

why are you so scared of him?

Gosh, normally I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, but in this case that seems very hard.

The holiday is the simplest issue. There's absolutely no way he is going. If you want to cancel it, speak to the travel agent as soon as you can to check the terms of cancelation. Alternatively, is there anyone else you'd like to take instead of him? Changing a name on the booking will probably be a lot cheaper than cancelling it.

In terms of getting the money back, recovery of a loan in this situation is tricky, even with evidence. As Blu says, I suspect any written acknowledgement you can get that this was a loan rather than a gift will help your case including any e-mail or text messages. I'd also speak to CAB, legal aid and debt advisory services to see if they've got any further advice as to how to proceed from a civil law perspective.

Also, although I suggest this with caution, if you really wanted to put pressure on him you could consider whether a criminal case could be made against him for fraud. Although it's not a traditional case, if he has set out to intentionally defraud (e.g. he didn't use the money solely for the business but instead for personal use), there may be an answerable case. I imagine this would be a last resort but if, after getting legal advice on this, you think there is an answerable case you could use this as a lever against him.

I guess the main question in this is what state (if any) you want your relationship to be in. Any of these steps will damage it, and the latter two will probably kill it. Not that this is a bad thing, but you'd have to be sure you were prepared for that.

yes DEFINITELY go to the CAB

Sorry but I have one word for you,your bfs without a doubt a "Player!!"

I have no doubts, and he's probably got another gf, that has had the same thing happen to her, I would, dump him, request the money, probably not going to happen, seek legal advice, and if your mum isn't financially stable I would re mortgage to pay her back.

Get rid of him, he is a liability.

Sorry, that was more than one word, but he is a "Player"

yes cola I agree

and I think, dear, dear girl, that you are spineless

he has a job and you have not said right, where's my money

oh he has you all figured

he is a lucky man with you

(sparkles, Hi ! )

i am really intrigued that you and your mum would lend anyone, partner or not, significant amounts of money, without discussing it with each other, or getting any sort of agreement, with the best will in the world, i think you were both a bit naive. if my DH asked my parents for £10 000, i would expect them to see cashflows, projections, business plans, etc.. rather than a blithe assurance that they would get the money back !

if my DH wanted me to raise £10 000 on our house, then the same would apply, and i would reserve the right to veto it if i felt it was a bad risk.

but you are not even married to or officially co-habiting with this man, he could just walk out of your lives, and leave you in the sh*t

take back the control, and get this leech out of your lives!

The one nice thing I gained from this money is that he took me to Las Vegas last year for 1 week (when my children were with their dad). Flew business class and had a wonderful time. I loved it. Want to go again ... but I had to pay for the hotel on departure and had to take spending money as he could not afford it.

Yes, I loved Las Vegas and want to go again, but only if I can afford it. Wanted to see Elton John/Celine Dion at Caesars Palace but it was roughly £250 a ticket and he could not pay for it and I could not justify spending that money!

Trying to ring CAB now to get advice.

OK. He is a conman - he may be conning himself too but he has certainly deceived you and your family.

Absolutely go to the CAB and plan to get rid of him whilst seeing if you can retrieve any of the money.

Thee's no need to even tell him if you want to cancel the holiday - just do it.

he didn't take you to Las Vegas by the sounds of it

he just paid for the flights

he paid for some flights, but owes you and you family 45 grand.

get a grip!!!!

And don't listen to him! The people who are the most persuasive are the ones who really believe what they are saying and he probably is totally self-deluding about how much he can earn/when he will make his fortune and pay it all back etc.
Good luck with the CAB.

with your money...

Bumble - look - sorry if this is way too far over the boundary of wht you cnsider our (MN) business, but what is it that is going on in your life that needs constant hols in order for you to relax? Most people do not go on all these hols, unless they have so much money and so much time that they don't need to think twice. What is wring with some relaxation time at home? To those of us who work hard at work and parenting but have one or even two holidays a year, it might sound as if you are running away from something, looking fr enjoyable distraction and sticking your head in the sand about what is really going on.

Stay at home, sort out this mess, find a way to enjoy your own company in your own home - which you may well be able to do once you get rid of someone who is taking you for a ride.

how can he afford business class flights to the states? with your money? or the money he owes you? he must love being with you! this is madness.... how can you trust him?

Blu has a good point

I wonder if you or your boyfriend aren't both dreamers, a bit

business flights to Vegas/ lots of holidays/ wanting to go see Celine Dion

it's nice but unless you are going to do something to make this life different you can't go on burying your head in the sand

is there a part of you that believed your boyfriend could bring you an exciting new life? has he preyed on that?

agree....

all these holidays and lovely treats are great, but what is the true cost, emotionally... is it really worth it?

I have holidays because I work hard and pay for them. My mum treats me and I treat her. I pay my way, pay my mortgage, bills, the kids have new clothes, spend quality time with me (when I am not working) - only work part time, 2 days in the office, 2 days at home.

Just spoke to CAB and someone will ring me to make an appointment to see them. A lovely lady and didn't berate me for getting into such a shitty life - understood completely, like some of you and NOT like some of you.

My boyfriend is a dreamer - I AM NOT!

Re. Vegas - I didn't know I was going until the day before - the children were with their dad, my boyfriend spoke to my boss and arranged for me to have the time off. When I found out, I needed to know where I was going so I could pack appropriate clothing - i.e. ski clothes for Austria, sun clothes for Australia.

Did I think my boyfriend could bring me an exciting life - NO!. I always paid my way (even when married), paid for holidays (my one vice), etc. I like being on my own, with my 3 children, playing cards, board games, playing on the Wii, etc. etc. but I also like lying on a sun bed reading a book enjoying my own company.

Each to their own, No?