If you rely on state support , you should have a great quality of life, not the breadline

[confidenceboost]

Aibu? Can we have a healthy chat on this one:

I will set my position out so nobody can say I've drip fed. I would say I have quite socialist mindset to be honest although I have grown up very privileged due to my parents hard work
I am from the uk but moved around as a child coming back to England age 18 for uni

I have been always lucky enough not to need help from the government. I think some people probably do claim help and don't need it but mostly I would say the cases are very genuine

Here's where I don't know if I am different

I think you should be given a high , highest quality of life by the govt if you genuinely for whatever reason need it.
Why should you live on the breadline?
Why should you turn down your heating?
Why should you not get treatment or help that would improve your life ?

Is it degrading to give state benefit as a breadline type lifestyle? I say yes

I think I am not being unreasonable saying that benefits and state support should be increased as it is unfair to resign people to a poor quality of life due to them needing help?

Thank you

I get what you mean op. My sibling is severely mentally and physically disabled. They can’t talk, hear, see, walk or communicate in any way. Completely unable to work obviously. They get highest rate of all benefits available to them. In the past month, their rent and care at home charges have increased over £400 per month. But with no benefit increase. They were just scraping by before hand, now I have to buy all their food as they simple cannot afford it. Their (partially) funded respite has also been stopped 2 years ago. I do wonder what people do who don’t have families to help them.

Please detail how you would fund this?

If the answer is “tax the rich” then please define what constitutes “the rich” and how much more you’d intend to tax them…

You need to revisit what a socialist is, because you aren't one.

I am so dissapointed to read the majority of these responses

If you read my other threads you'll probably see I have a Tesla. That we pay for. So why should someone disabled or sick or single with children have to not get out the house

We work our socks off and as you see when I got sick and unexpectedly so I ended up in over draft and I'm sick of being pushed from pillar to post

Genuinely so many people in same position there must be

And honestly I want all of you to reflect if you think that genuine need should still be breadline

I've said multiple times I'm happy to discuss living wages as I find it all v interesting

Despite some comments I actually watch the news read the guardian and daily mail haha for balance, the only two free ones! I also listen to lbc and I love it. I was an avid MUNer, creative writer and chef too who was in the newspaper
I am a mother of three a wife a daughter an aunty a best friend I love animals and I wish I could go to Thailand again I haven't been for ten years since I got married
I make lots of food from scratch I'm struggling with my identity since becoming sick again
I also worked in social housing sector as I believed in it all the way to my core
I have volunteered my whole life and help my people to get the right outcomes
I try my best at everything and sorry that my words were not fluffy or convincing enough
I have a degree and I'm privately educated
I want the coversation in accessible language so you know what maybe some people who are in this setup and missed an education feel they can join and share their experiences

As always it's rich people making decisions for the poor

And I've described my setup as trapped middle and we have no disposable income atm, I've been grateful for the advice but genuinely this is not ok to take my info and bring it across

Do you want a selfie as well whilet I'm at it making my case that I'm bright not stupid and I didn't know I was going to be assassinated for asking

That

It goes without saying that in a properly run left wing society of any stripe, those who do contribute (work, if you like) are guaranteed at least the same standard of living as those who do not.

The difference is that if you are able to contribute, it is society's job to provide you a way in which to contribute. If you refuse that, rather than are unable to do it, then you get nothing.

I don't disagree and if anyone can find a socialist system that works then I'm all for it. But we live in a greedy world motivated by profit which in turn creates a huge wage gap between rich and poor and a growing disincentive to work. And so the cycle continues....The focus needs to be on ensuring that those on minimum wage have a good standard of living and that there is further incentive in salary to progress and work hard. Sadly there will always be a minority that are happy to do nothing and take benefits and it's very sad when people who genuinely need that cushion are judged on their behalf.

I think before the benefits system can be properly reformed, we need to reform structures around it.

2 years paid further education, be this university or a proper apprenticeship where you‘re then ready to go into a job or become self-employed. It would make education more accessible for poorer members of society, who so often just go straight into a minimum wage job without a progression structure on leaving school. On a three year degree course, I‘d charge for the first year and have the final 2 paid.Money would come primarily from employers, who then take on the graduates for a minimum of five years after, with a pot available for small business owners to subsidise their involvement in the system. Learners can claim their 2 years at any age - if they’re not ready when leaving school, they can do minimum wage until they are.

I‘d also implement proper, comprehensive careers advice at school, with a roadmap made for every pupil before choosing subjects and again before leaving.

I‘d also ensure the UK had more manufacturing companies. They ‚create value‘ in a financial sense much more than anything in the service industry and with a higher manufacturing percentage, the economy becomes better able to financially support the service industry both through the sales tax and the income tax generated from the manufacturers.

A manufacturing job can also better accommodate school hours through a shift system and no customer contact.

And no zero-hours contracts outside of an extremely limited range of industries/ a restricted percentage of a company’s staff.

I‘d increase NHS contributions to raise their funding so that illnesses can be treated before they become chronic and rehabilitating.

I‘d also like to somehow incentivise flexible working and job shares. As a student over 20 years ago, I suggested to a large supermarket where I worked in the holidays that I buddy up with a young parent. She gets to stay home during school holidays and I get to work during the holidays. It was too alien and complicated a concept for them to implement.

We‘d need to do something about property rental, too, maybe a maximum rent amount per area

However, once we’ve made employment more accessible to all through security, flexibility, financially healthy companies, good education and good company progression structures, we would have a good basis to sort out the benefits system. And probably less need of it.

I've read most of this thread because I thought it was in interesting take but what on earth does this all mean OP? I why bring Lush into it?

I’d love to see the economics on this.
if you give someone on a lower income money they spend it, higher income saves it. Which is why trickle down economics doesn’t work well.
When that money is spent it creates jobs in service and manufacturing. So boosts the economy that way, with more employed more taxes coming in.

it does need to be paid for initially

I asked a direct question which you won’t engage with / have a healthy conversation about?

to recap: why do you think people who don’t work have more than many of those that do?

if unemployed people have better lifestyles than employed people what is the incentive to work?

when I was a single parent I had more than enough money to live on,until the benefit cap came in of course,I haven’t received benefits for years now though.

Yes that's my thread too

As I said we run a business so we will be out of an over draft in no time when my husband can leave me in the house alone without me falling apart

And I genuinely don't think they should in my situation BUT I do think so for other families yes I do

Anyway I remembered why I don't use this forum as most of you are nice but the few people who think they are better then me or smarter then me or that I am stupid for saying people deserve a better quality of life

Hopefully you're not the poster with stis, cheating on husband, hates kid, has a cyst somewhere private, is jealous of her nanny
Thinks her husband is spying on her or coercing her
Has been told bad news and needs a safe space

Maybe I'm fantasising about better days because I am disabled

You are beggars belief

You sound very bitter. You need to get out of that mindset and reframe things because the only person that bitterness is going to damage is you.

Instead of being so angry, try reflecting on the fact that you live in a country that does provide a safety net.

Also everyone I know who are on benefits,have cars,smoke,get takeaways,days out,it’s the working people that get screwed in my opinion.

I am a full time carer for my seriously disabled DH. I am not at all sure what you are trying to achieve with these posts, apart from put people's backs up?

This is it exactly. The original post has to be a wind up surely

So how do you propose the Government funds this?

People who work should always have a better quality of life than those who don’t. The system at the moment is broken, because benefits give as good or better a lifestyle than many people who work. Unemployment / underemployment benefits should be the basics only - shelter, food, clothing, healthcare, education. That’s still way better than 90% of the world’s population.

Ideally those who really can’t work should get a better lifestyle than those who choose not to (although still not better than those who do work). But the problem is that so many people game the system, when a fifth of the working age population claim to have a work limiting condition there is clearly a huge problem.

Your posts are becoming harder and harder to understand. Rather than venting into the ether, book an appointment to discuss how you’re feeling with your GP. They can help you. People on here can’t and some are clearly winding you up even more.

This.
Ultimately you have a few competing aims.

If there is no incentive to work then logically why would you? So you want work to pay more than not working. However you also don't want people who have no job to be horribly poor. So there has to be a base level of 'enough'. But then if you start working you will lose some or all of that help so it feels like a very high marginal tax rate - at which point people ask why are they working. And it's not like the minimum wage gives an amazing standard of living. So is it right that people with no job have even less money than that? So then you end up topping up people on minimum wage. But that's a bit of a subsidy for employers.

Added to that some people will not be able to work because of their health. It seems wrong that those people are long term on the breadline. So you pay sick people more. But that sets up an incentive to claim sickness benefit not unemployment. So then you set up a system to check if people are really entitled to it - how sick are they? But this becomes a horrible stressful thing to put people through. And also why should someone sick get more money than someone who just got unlucky and lives somewhere with no suitable jobs?

How do you square all of that? And I've not even considered the additional costs that sickness brings. PIP is a pretty blunt too for that.

Ideally no one should be on the breadline.

Those who work should be far better off, even on minimum wage. Those who cannot work
should be comfortable, bills paid, food on the table and to be able to save some too.

Unfortunately wages aren’t high enough and that’s the issue most people who have who disagree with this. People should be better off working but low wages make it so even those who work full time are on the breadline.

Well this seems like a bating post to me to drum up more hatred of those on benefits.

Lots of this lately, which is excellent timing, given all the talk of slashing benefits for the disabled.

@LivingLaVidaBabyShower

I haven't responded to anyone directly

I said the wages and living wages is a separate argument

You do need to connect the two for full pictures but actually separate them
That's like saying people in a care home are the reason you can't get a gp appointment
.. not quite

So I propose the money is taken at the top
I also think the govt seriously need to work on procurement
I would like to see their negotiation on meds and all nhs contracts it looks like the government are bleeding money everywhere

I also propose that tax is lowered to sort of 7% and then provided you pay into heath insurance gym or something more meaningful then a tax bill or stealth council tax you could get a rebate from govt

Then the people who most need it get proper support and we get most people working who can that are not at the moment

I think there's a huge problem in job market

I hated my boss for sending me out in my Tesla with my nice clothes on (btw my kids wear clothes off fb on principle ) I was actually paid like £60 a day and forced to drive hundred of miles I am a people pleaser and it was a disgusting cycle of stress

I hate that you need money to save money too
Hate it that I have no petrol bill but others do who would seriously seriously benefit from an ev

Also you know I lived in Switzerland so low tax does work

I think OP's whole thread is some sort of weird wind up.

Well I work hard and have never claimed any benefits. I can't afford a tesla, and even if I could I wouldn't buy one from that nazi.

Maybe sell the naziwagon and stop reading the daily heil? Will help your state of mind at the least.