If you rely on state support , you should have a great quality of life, not the breadline

[confidenceboost]

Aibu? Can we have a healthy chat on this one:

I will set my position out so nobody can say I've drip fed. I would say I have quite socialist mindset to be honest although I have grown up very privileged due to my parents hard work
I am from the uk but moved around as a child coming back to England age 18 for uni

I have been always lucky enough not to need help from the government. I think some people probably do claim help and don't need it but mostly I would say the cases are very genuine

Here's where I don't know if I am different

I think you should be given a high , highest quality of life by the govt if you genuinely for whatever reason need it.
Why should you live on the breadline?
Why should you turn down your heating?
Why should you not get treatment or help that would improve your life ?

Is it degrading to give state benefit as a breadline type lifestyle? I say yes

I think I am not being unreasonable saying that benefits and state support should be increased as it is unfair to resign people to a poor quality of life due to them needing help?

Thank you

@confidenceboost - China, Russia and North Korea have their system founded on this basis. Do look into the living standards and let us know when you're moving to your utopia.

On points from more sensible posters above, I agree lifelong disability benefits should have additional payments to cover holidays and some luxuries. I do not think unemployment, sick pay nor short-term disability benefits should cover that, because it discourages work.

Excellent idea. Then everyone struggling on lower wages can just give up working and rely on your brilliant benefits package and have a higher quality of life.
Genius.

I’ve always felt that benefits should not exceed a living wage salary.
The idea is to encourage people into work. I suspect that your idea wouldn’t help in this respect.
Those who cannot work at all should in an ideal world have enhanced benefits. Unfortunately the UK is far from ideal and the public purse just can’t cover everyone’s wants and needs.

I think the big issue is that many working people also live on the breadline. Working people having to rely on top ups and those just over threshold ending up worse off…

tbh as a start I’d like to see the government tax businesses properly and without loop holes because I think that would massively help with long term change.

I don't know how we've reached a point as a society where people think your value is based on your workplace contribution. People matter because we are people. Everyone deserves to have their basic needs met- a clean, safe, warm place to live, food, etc. I also think it's a sad reflection of society that some believe poor people shouldn't have any nice things or entertainment, like a TV. Also everyone should be able to access the internet for free imo.

Everyone who works should be able to buy a property, not struggle with bills, and comfortably raise a family. No one working should need to rely on benefits or food banks. People on benefits should be provided for, but wages for working people should be significantly higher. Can you really blame people for not wanting to work when it will be for pittance more and their live will barely improve anyway?

As for people who can work but don't (a minority, who cost us far less than the rich hoarding money offshore), we need to discuss how to support as a society. The poverty cycle and very poor education is a societal problem. It's all well and good telling people to go and get a job...who is going to hire someone who has two teeth because they can't afford dental care, cannot afford a suit for interviews, and who has no GCSE's to their name, when even university graduates can't get a job in the current system??? Do we propose these people just starve?

I also feel the huge reduction in trade jobs has impacted the workforce significantly.

Raising everyones taxes is the obvious answer, i don't know enough about government finances and schemes to know if there's even other ways to provide that kind of care.

All government spending is funded by taxation, there is no other money (not in this country anyway, some countries have sovereign wealth funds but we don't). Furthermore, all taxes are paid by individuals. You can tax a business but that essentially takes money away from the business owner / shareholders or it increases prices for consumers.

There's no chat to be had @confidenceboost , healthy or otherwise. Your musings are idealistic claptrap.

Living a 'great' life isn't a human right. Most people don't get to live a great life, for a plethora of reasons. When you're fighting the battles life inevitably throws at you (and we most often don't even know the battles those around us are fighting), do gooders preaching about how we can all do better by each other is of nothing more than nuisance value.

Is this going to be yet another of those threads where a poster makes a controversial comment, guaranteed to get everyone arguing amongst themselves and never comes back. There have been quite a few lately and it gets a bit tedious.

Personally, I feel the social contract has broken down in some respects. The idea is that you pay into the system when you can and take out of it when you need. I know many people who don't pay into it (perhaps by not declaring income or simply not working) but take every penny they can out of it (perhaps their undeclared income makes them eligible for UC for example). People are very much of the mindset that "I am entitled to this support" but very few seem to think "I'm out of the worst now so I'll happily pay my share of tax." You simply can't have it both ways and have the system that can be economically viable. So yes, in principle someone's standard of living should be perfectly adequate on state support for sure... but, severe disability aside, there should be a healthy amount of give AND take.

Edited as used the incorrect word 🤦🏼‍♀️

Trouble is there are loads of people working who doesn’t have a great quality of life. Taxing them more will just be robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Genuine reasons guys

I cannot believe the amount of responses here

I have become disabled again in the last 3 months

I am agog

I genuinely pray nobody else has the boot on the other foot

So you want to take away dignity and leave sick people on a bread line ans you're ok if this happened to you too?

You’re on PIP which is good and you claim child benefit. I’m sorry you’re ill and you have huge outgoings but no “state support” is going to cover £6k a month in outgoings.

Yet you are judging that other people can work whilst not working yourself?
You are able to post a coherent sentence on here and able to presumably care for your children to an extent, why are you unable to do any form of work?

The state is there to help people survive through tough circumstances. If people wish to thrive then they need to take steps to improve their financial position.

I do not think it’s right that people not be able adequately heat their own homes (whether they work or not) or eat a nutritious diet. I don’t think the state system currently is adequate for the essentials, nor do I think it should fund anything beyond the basics.

To clarify highest quality means

Warm , properly nourished, housed, car or access to appointments , clothes etc not just hand me downs

And yes I agree that the whole system needs a fucking huge overhaul

Having been paid below min wage and I have a huge bee in my bonnet about this

So why should you suffer if you're in genuine need??

Lots of people on benefits who are lazy but most not and genuine I would say

And yes wages need overhaul

I would say I have quite socialist mindset to be honest although I have grown up very privileged due to my parents hard work

People's wealth often dictates their values. Socialism is a great idea until the people who are paying for it run out of money.

What what what??
How old are you?
Do you never listen to the News or read a newspaper?
You seem to have miraculously failed to notice the constant information that this country pays out billions in welfare and benefits which it can no longer afford , taxes are very high and recently gone up even more.
Someone in this country has to go to work to pay for other people's ''welfare'' . To repeat -''there isn't a magic money tree''.

It would be great if everyone could have this. Robots could do all the work and humans life happy carefree lives full of sport, family, friends and museum trips.

In the absence of such a utopia, or a revolution, we probably can't afford it just yet. Maybe next year, if not, definitely the year after.

They should have an average quality of life. Enough to heat their home, feed their family but that's it. If TV, just the BBC, no sky, no Xbox and playstation unless they work for it and pay for it themselves.

car ... clothes etc not just hand me downs

Cars are not essential, let's make that one clear, unless you live in the countryside or have a disability, perhaps.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with hand-me-downs. Sorry but you really do sound quite out of touch.

But one of the problems is who determines what 'highest quality' means? For some people being able to buy new clothes in Primark would be acceptable. For others, they are going to insist that 'highest quality' means that they AREN'T forced to buy clothes in Primark and have the choice of the whole High Street to shop in.

This!

This was a for healthy conversation guys

Genuinely I can't be bothered to respond

The bunch of you are obviously slaving at work unable to use mumsnet on a friday morning?

My husband and I work our socks off and can’t afford to have the heating on as much as we would like or live the “highest” quality of life.

i do think benefits should be given to those in need and that they should have a decent quality of life …. But not the “highest” ?!

Yes if you are disabled or totally mentally incapacitated, but there are people who come up with excuses why they cant