To think it is naive to assume Russian troll farms don’t target massive high traffic discussion forums like Mumsnet to post misinformation

[ThePeppyMoose]

Given the recent types of posts…

Nobody is wasting time, it's an automated process set up to flood internet fora with garbage.

most people on here are capable of challenging the tripe. I tend to just click away and not let them waste my time. What's the point of arguing with a computer.

Totally agree and the vaccine thing is especially worrying given the site's demographic.

People are very naive if they think this isn't happening on MN and all over social media. I'm sure there was a report on Brexit influence that mentioned Russian bots or misinformation farms posting on both sides of the debate to rile up unrest. Some of it is easy to spot. Some is quite subtle.

I think Mumsnet gets visits from the troll farms of many major powers. UK, EU, US, Russian and Chinese.

You really think only Russia tries to influence people online?

Yes of course Mumsnet is subject to this and other forms of trolling, it makes perfect sense to target the site in this way.

As I said yesterday, Mumsnet is aware that the site is subject to coordinated trolling...and they will act - when it is in their interests to act:

My post yesterday as I'm not going to type same out again:

Justine is clearly aware this is happening and that the site is being manipulated in this way - she references trolls and bad faith actors in her own recent posts when Mumsnet removed posts "stirring up conflict" regarding handling of abuse images by the site.

JustineMumsnet 4/2/25
"It's also pretty clear from what we can see behind the scenes that there is an ongoing, coordinated effort from trolls to further inflame these discussions, and cause as much disruption as possible. We are taking steps to remove bad faith actors, but we know this can be frustrating for those who just want to express your views about what happened."
www.mumsnet.com/talk/site_stuff/5267612-update-from-mnhq-addressing-the-recent-images-posted-on-the-site

However 'when it is in their interests to act' is the critical part...because Mumsnet is a business with profit as it's main consideration ..lots of the trolling activity is actually money generating as there more hits on the site, more genuine posters invested in the threads and subsequently more adverts being viewed. Which is where the money comes from.

So Mumsnet is not incentivised to act a lot of the time, as tackling this can work against financial interests. They will tackle when it takes the form of a direct hit on the site itself, as Justine has intimated above.

There is analysis that can be done to identify bots...IPN addresses associated with certain VPN accounts etc but it is doubtful Mumsnet will explore this more carefully due to the reasons I have given. If it ever works against Mumsnet financially, it will be at that stage there is incentive to act.

If you want to explore the impact of this activity on people and is worth having a read of the Asch conformity experiments; basically if enough people around you are saying black is white it can be enough for you to come to believe black is white yourself, or at least come to say it in front of others. Asch demonstrated this by putting actors in his experiments with unknowing research subjects...the research subjects doubted their own minds when surrounded with these actors, yielded what they knew to be true and conformed to the lies the actors gave.

So this is clearly a massive win to be gained by bad actors, and hugely worth investing in.

www.simplypsychology.org/asch-conformity.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asch_conformity_experiments

I can probably guess the mod 🙄 One does appear to love giving women a ticking off 🙄 MN needs to hold onto free speech even if a particular mod doesn't want hurty feelings caused but when bots are obvious bots what are we to do? Report report I guess.

‘Diagram incoming - that arsehole at St Basil’s has double parked Lavrov’s tank again and thrown the mean note I left on the floor. He’s crying now, thanks bbz’.

Mumsnet is not incentivised to act a lot of the time, as tackling this can work against financial interests.
That sounds correct, and frankly outrageous.

If you're interested, it's probably worth looking at the dead Internet theory. Basically, we are starting to get to a point where a lot of social media contentious talking points are basically bots talking to each other.

Now and again I do call out a bot because you are so anti European or British it's shocking. There is also the "empty vessels make most sound" camp they just come on saying why do you started a thread? Them pointing out they are not interested in the thread i find it completely perplexing .

Definitely.

There have been a lot of threads bashing disability benefits. There is a green paper about to be published on disability benefits. You'd be forgiven for thinking the government might be using MN to float ideas and see what might and might not be palatable to the public.

Sadly, I agree people with invisible disabilities will be targeted.

I always wonder if people who are paid to engage in disinformation sometimes get distracted and post on Baby names threads or my favourite lyrics threads.

It is interesting to see people who are regular commentators to see what kind of threads they post on and don't post on.

It's a good point made by pp. When sites are flooded with bots arguing with each other they kinda cancel each other out. In the meantime real members wander away so they lose their audience. Funny that.

It took a long time during covid for MNHQ to start deleting disinformation posts - before then it was always 'challenge it on the thread'. There was so much being posted it got exhausting to always 'challenge' and so people gave up and instead of being challenged on the thread, it was left unchallenged. At some point they realised that there was an actual problem and started deleting, I'm not sure what triggered the change.

Another problem is MNHQ not recognising disinformation, and it can be quite frustrating for someone 'in the trenches' who can spot this stuff on something they know quite a bit about to report a post and have the 'we've taken a look and can't see any problems' response.

And, you also get posters who 'Gish Gallop' and spend a lot of time posting low level guff repeatedly on a thread or threads in a short space of time. You report one of their more egregious posts to say 'not a genuine poster' and MNHQ delete that post only and not the rest.

This is the essential point people miss

it is not about making you right of left on an issue

it is about making us not trust anything, from anyone, anywhere. it's fundamental Russian disruption

I think it's 95% Russia and China yes.

Yep. All of this.

FB our local paper and the regional one are infested with them at times in the comments.

Still doesn't mean that there are lots of Bots. The first time I really noticed it was during the Brexit referendum. Annoyingly the Right are much better at it. Reform know exactly what they're doing when it comes to this sort ofThe centre left tie themselves up in knots about being unscrupulous.

I found this interesting! https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20161026-how-liars-create-the-illusion-of-truth

What is the answer, in this age of proliferating AI and social media? Really good education from primary encouraging critical thought? And some/more focus on mass communications studies at secondary?

I didn’t even accuse them of being a bot. I just made a sarcastic comment along the lines of "how much is Putin paying you to write this drivel?"

I think it's happening, but, I don't think it's the level some people claim.

Not everyone who has a different opinion is a Bit or Russian Troll or American etc.

Some people just consume different news and believe they're the most informed and they know the truth etc. some people live in echo chambers where the only information they get is from the same sources that spout the same stuff as each other.
Listening to the same 10 people all saying the same thing isn't the way to form a non biased, fully informed and full picture based opinion.

Report report I guess.

Yes, and then receive snarky replies from 'MNHQ' for doing so.

This site is fucked.

You'd be forgiven for thinking the government might be using MN to float ideas and see what might and might not be palatable to the public.

I would suggest it's more likely to be bad actors seeking to foment dissent and fear.

I love the "sone people consume different news" - it so sums up what is going on, how misinformation spreads

You don't need bots
You do need a source - and they can be paid disrupters who have a mostly normal MN/twitter/etc life making it hard to prove that it isn't just a very strange opinion that they have
But they can also just be people who believe what they read - perhaps it's someone they trust to speak for them - farage is a great example

Yeah, you might be right about that.