To think it is naive to assume Russian troll farms don’t target massive high traffic discussion forums like Mumsnet to post misinformation

[ThePeppyMoose]

Given the recent types of posts…

I think they do target all online spaces where discussions are taking place, but also, a lot of people seem extremely quick to call anyone who expresses a difference of political opinion a bot.

I think some people have seem to have lost all ability to understand that not everyone who holds different views to their own (not just political views) isn't a bot, isn't a troll, isn't a shill, isn't a gaslighter and isn't a narcissist.

Sometimes it's the people throwing the bot accusations who are the ones that are trying to influence how a discussion goes.

I just roll my eyes, scroll past or ignore the thread completely. Some threads are imo. Clickbait by goodness knows who.

They do. And UK political parties do too.

You can’t always. But it’s worth bearing the possibility in mind that a poster isn’t always what they seem.

I guess, as in they could then use that info to do it?! I just like to think I don't interact with threads or posters that are total BS without me having any semblance of awareness. But I don't really know now that I think about it. People seem real?! Makes me feel a bit dumb and vulnerable.

Ironically (or, as you well know, as the case may be), that's a very Russian bot thing to say. When they can't convince you with twisted logic and lies, they turn to "Ooooh but who can you really believe?". If you have no concern about specific bots on MN, feel free to carry on believing nothing...

Yup

For me there is a difference between someone having a different opinion to me and someone either being a bot or a very strange poster.
For example:

• Wanting support for Ukraine to stop or thinking that Trump is doing a good job

I absolutely disagree with you and will argue with you by presenting my own opinion supported by facts. Since this is a discussion forum you'll probably do the same and convince me or we'll both keep our stances. I would not believe you are a bot why would I

• Saying Ukraine has received 350 billion

from the US or that Trump is right in saying that Ukraine attacked Russia.

That is just blatantly false and I wonder what those posters motivations are. Either they are very ignorant in which case factual sources should convince them or yes I believe they are bots. I know factchecking isn't a thing anymore on other social media sites but I wish MN would still do it. Misinformation is dangerous. Funnily enough those posters always flounce when you prove them wrong.

@mummytalking

An American person and a Russian get on a plane in Moscow and start talking. The Russian says he works for the Kremlin and is on his way to learn American propaganda techniques. The American, puzzled, asks, "What American propaganda techniques?" The Russian replies, "Exactly."

Tbh I always assume that.

@TemporaryPosition, is that a popular RT joke? It should be - great way to (try to) make your citizens feel less shit about living in a mafia state where news media are state-controlled and dissenters are intimidated, if not sent to prison or shot, poisoned, or thrown out of windows.
You'd want them to think others have it worse and don't even know it, so they can at least feel smug in their daily misery.
In reality no one is as good as Russia when it comes to propaganda. But on this occasion, they'll soon learn it's a lost cause in the West... I do wish MN just deleted the obvious bot threads and posts.

As well as the Russians, there are literally tens of millions of Americans who think Trump is the bee's knees. We can't discount the possibility that some of them might post on here occasionally, or even (gasp!) that one or two Brits might have been infected by the same virus.

It’s not just Russians, although they are currently waging a massive information war. Basically, whoever has money can distort political debate to a massive degree with an army of trolls.

There’s a lot of political manipulation on social media.

I am currently seeing a lot of posts about Autism and special needs in AIBU. I suspect someone wants to make invisible disabilities the next target for cuts in education and benefits. No idea which party or who. But if it was a genuine question, why not post it on the SEN boards? Not much traffic there, but enough to get an informed answer.

I've had a blazing row with a friend (who is also a work colleague) who thinks Trump's approach to Ukraine is the right one, and anyone who thinks otherwise is just brainwashed by only reading and listening to mainstream media (rather than doing independent research on youtube etc.).
I may think she's barking mad on this - but she definitely isn't a bot).

I think this is a large part of it. As fewer people look to mainstream news sources they instead look at X or Substack,YouTube, Reddit whatever other, and you have people living alongside one another who see things in a very different light.

Did it have to be a blazing row? It's not a good thing for friends and neighbours to be at each others throats

But real, non-bot posters post nonsense and untrue things all the time! Presumably you want MN to zap all of them too? If not, where do they draw the line?

Did it have to be a blazing row? It's not a good thing for friends and neighbours to be at each others throats
No - it was very unpleasant and I regret it. It just escalated and unfortunately neither of us stopped it. We have previously agreed never to discuss politics - don't really know why it happened

On a point of order, it's disinformation that is the problem, not misinformation. There is a difference.

We should report the former and argue with the latter.

HQ did used to remove disinformation posts, that said, and they now don't seem so keen, expecting posters to spot it. It is countered then by posters who definitely are not paid for this voluntary task. A large website should not be relying on us to police the spread of disinformation.

All that happens os that posters then plop the deliberate lies from thread to thread and then others fall for it, see it, quote it. As planned.

I would add this is not unique to Ukraine. See also, anti vaxx.

They do but both sides are at it.

A thread on here yesterday asks/answers the same thing. Interesting and scary reading.
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/politics/5284932-bots-what-are-they-in-simple-terms?page=2&reply=142552295

I noticed a number of new threads started by what looked like bots immediately following the US election. Annoying, and puts me off using the site.

The point of it all is not to convince us of things. It is to disrupt the conversation so we can't rationally discuss facts and everyone ends up not being able to believe anything.

The line is you can't trust the mainstream media and you can't trust social media and you can't trust talk forums.

Then you are left in a fog of confusion about what's going on. Which makes it easier for those who want to to do things...

There's a huge difference between disinformation with an agenda and general nonsense

One is state backed and part of Russia's war on the west.

One is just fluff

If platforms had squashed all the obvious bots that were stirring up froth in the lead up to the Brexit referendum we maybe wouldn't have given Putin that massive victory

Hosting an internet forum comes with huge responsibilities in an age when we know Putin is funding vast buildings full of people to spread disinformation through chat rooms and social media sites. That's not a supposition or a rumour. It's a known fact.

If Mumsnet want to shrug and say "not our problem" then they are complicit.

100% agree with this.

Definitely. Russian disinformation isn’t just about outlandish claims it’s about nudging and influencing people to believe their narratives (especially on Ukraine). Mumsnet HQ should have an mis/disinformation policy and response capacity just as most other big digital platforms do.

Taking the politics out of it, what about health misinformation? What if harmful actors start a disinformation campaign about measles vaccines. Will they just allow it?

This is happening on other forums and platforms across the world but especially targeting European democracies that support Ukraine - and it is blinkered to believe as a leading British online forum mumsnet is somehow an exception. I hope Mumsnet will do something to respond on this one.