AIBU to not want to go to war

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It's expensive and it hurts and it helps nothing, it just puts innocent sons, brothers, fathers, uncles and friends through the meat grinder. The only people who benefit are those who make a fortune from selling weapons and are granted contracts for reconstruction.

Haven't we learnt anything? What happened to "never again".

AIBU to really really really not want to be involved in any war?

In sum from our naive posters

With our support Ukraine will defeat Russia and get its land back and that will be the end of the war.

So you think it’s impossible for Ukraine to fend off Russia under any circumstances?

Look we've all seen the measure of what you think. And it's lying down and being trampled by Russia which is a basket case economy. I think we should persist with support because this roll over being proposed has consequences for all of Europe.

It's not an issue to you - but your reductionist idea serves your own immediate needs. It's naive, and does not accord with the reality of what Russia is actually like

So you think it’s impossible for Ukraine to fend off Russia under any circumstances?

Yes, without US military support, the war is over for Ukraine.

Look we've all seen the measure of what you think. And it's lying down and being trampled by Russia which is a basket case economy. I think we should persist with support because this roll over being proposed has consequences for all of Europe.

It's not an issue to you - but your reductionist idea serves your own immediate needs. It's naive, and does not accord with the reality of what Russia is actually like

I do not want Russia to win but you have to be realistic. I would love Ukraine to win but they are not going to.

That’s not an example, that’s you saying he’s being belligerent again. Evidence please. And can you learn to quote at some point?

This was always the case. When the vast majority of warmongerers now were peaceniks

I don't think Putin will be ruling the entire world, its such a remote prospect that it astonishes me anyone serious would put their life on the line for that belief. But let's say for sake of argument they did - remember when America ruled the whole world? Why would it be much worse?

Ukraine only conscripted men. Why was that?

Who is going to look after the young and the elderly

Well for a start we would all have to be very careful of standing near windows.

When did America rule the world?
I can remember when Russias influence stretched past Berlin. It’s obvious that Putin wants it all back. And probably more.

Perhaps Europe needs to start investing in its military so we aren't beholden to the USA. Or perhaps we should just give up and ask Trump if we can become states.

How did the USA become so powerful in only 250 years? Because they invested in their military and internal propaganda to make citizens believe they are now God's chosen people.

That's fucking hilarious. That it wouldn't be any worse to have Russia rule the world than America doing so. Hahahaha do you know what life is like in Russia ???

???
Do you thnk if there was ever conscription that women would be called up to the front to fight?
no, they wouldn't

That’s not an example, that’s you saying he’s being belligerent again. Evidence please. And can you learn to quote at some point?

Are you a frustrated lawyer? This is MN not a court of law. Do one.

You said he’s belligerent. I wondered what you meant as I haven’t seen him be so, but ok. You haven’t seen it either and just want to carp with no real reason. That’s fine.

Are you Keir Starmer by any chance?

It's good form to quote your sources in a debate.

I find those with poor intentions are without reputable sources and become belligerent when asked to provide evidence.

They carp on about how unfair it is to ask for proof.

The Trump presidency is the biggest threat to democratic principle. He will do deals and support anyone who shares the principle of wealth, power and control. It does not matter how they achieve that position.

Where Zelensky 'failed' where he has succeeded in Europe is assuming that the US shared an ideological framework and wanted to support Ukraine.

The US under Trump just wants to exploit the situation for financial gain. They don't care beyond that.

No, just wondered if I’d missed something.

Who does? My grandfather told me that, when he was conscripted in WW11, all the men in the barracks were furious that politicians hadn't managed to prevent the war.

What on earth are you on about, OP? When did America rule the world?

Does anyone think this is incorrect?

Would depend on military and financial support from the rest of the world. If Russia is ‘given’ Ukraine are they going to stop there or continue on into Poland or Finland?

YANBU to not want a war, nobody with any sense does. The trouble with war is that someone doesn't get to decide whether they are dragged into a war, someone else decides it for them. Ukraine didn't choose a war, but they've got one.

You can choose not to fight in a war, you can surrender and let the other side win without any conflict, but if you do that you will probably be worse off than if you had died fighting. Choosing not to fight doesn't prevent someone else deciding you are their enemy and fair game to be imprisoned/killed/tortured/raped.

There are "rules of war" and "war crimes" of course, but these tend to be prosecuted rarely and only ever after the fact.