To wish Starmer would make a unilateral decision to rejoin the EU?

[Wildflowers99]

That’s all, really. Yes it would be ‘undemocratic’ but should we sacrifice national interest on the altar of a vote from 10 years ago that everyone seems to regret?

We feel adrift during a scary time, and the US has all but ghosted us.

Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard, Spock. Best of three.😂

Forgive me if I'm wrong but 2016 wasn't the first referendum on Brexit?

So why couldn't there be another one 10 years after the last?

Personally, as an EU citizen living here I don't think I could stomach another one. But I can't see that there is anything at all undemocratic about changing your mind as a demographic changes.

When did we actually officially leave after all the undemocratic court appeals from sore losers?

The referendums are designed to be at least generational and ideally a life time in order for the full picture to emerge which can take many decades. It’s not an election (in and out of the EU) Referendums are binding.
I am not sure you have grasped the legalities. It would be unsustainable to have a referendum every ten years clearly and unaffordable.

Oh no, Starmer won't do that. It looks a lot more likely we are having a fast trade deal with the US.

The EU will take forever to negotiate. Their public positions are all things Starmer could never agree to.

The US offers tech business, which we and Europe don't have.

I voted Remain. But don't tell yourself the EU looks like a winning ticket. It's in huge trouble. The UK seems to have made a significant decision today.

And yes 2016 was the only referendum on leaving the EU - the other one was about joining the customs union 50 odd years ago, clearly a customs union is a completely different prospect at the time. The EU evolved over time.

Agreed, I'd have no issue if there was enough strength of feeling after a generation to consider another referendum. So say 2050 ish if a generation is roughly 25 years. Certainly not just five years after we officially left.

@PoliteTaupeLeader

So there was 41 years between the last referendums.

That does mean much more of a change in the demographic than just nine years when some of those who voted remain are still
sulking and want a second chance to vote the same way.

I do think you’re probably being unreasonable because, you know, democracy.

Another vote is the way forward. Rejoin would no doubt win hands down. The Brexit vote was insane. The numpties who voted leave would scream and shout if we rejoined without another vote (but would probably put their crosses next to yes in the privacy of the voting booth).

Thats assuming the EU would take the UK, back, of course.

So why couldn't there be another one another 100 years after the last?

Why 10 years after?

The UK left the EU. We're not going back. Get over it.

Or most people are against the PM making an undemocratic decision but are still convinced that leaving was the wrong decision?
Which polls show is actually the view of most of the british public.

I understand perfectly well. I also understand that the demographic that voted overwhelming for Brexit are by and large dead or headed that way. They made a decision that was overwhelmingly NOT wanted by the people who would have to live with it longest. It would be ridiculous to assume those people should have a decision made for their entire lives by their grandparents

"the ends justify the means" - the cry of the left for 150 years.

I didn't vote either way, after being originally a big fan of the idea of the EU, but after living in the rest of the EU I was torn between the impact of unconstrained low cost workers flooding the UK, the absolute corruption and waste of the EU, the way EU countries avoided implementing EU laws when they didn't want it or abused ones they did want (like structural reform funds being used to lay off UK workers), against the inevitable economic impact.

After I was fairly agnostic until the "Article 16" vaccine crisis during COVID when it became apparent the EU administration really was a "bunch of unelected bureaucrats" pulling the strings.

So far, I think Brexit has gone better than I expected. I can see working class people benefitting, the strain on public services is reducing (our local schools are not oversubscribed for the first time in 15 years), self employed wages have increased. Housing availability is at least not getting crazy worse like it was 10 years ago. Previous EU immigrants have settled down, integrated and are becoming fully part of the community. The heat has gone out of the discussion on EU immigrants, we were available to absorb large number of Ukraine residents without a problem.

Yes, there is a proportion of the loud metropolitan elite who are angry about waiting in queues at EU immigration, not being able to use their holiday homes as much, paying more for nannies, cleaners and builders, angry about VAT on private schools being imposed. These things don't matter at all to the majority.

Oh, and as soon as you call people who voted leave stupid you have lost the argument

So you based your decision to vote leave on europeans willing to have another vote and not on the fact that UK leaders were putting lies on the buses to mislead public? EU was Uak's largest trading partner, so many small businesses had to close the shop because they and their customers couldnt deal with custom fees and timelines.

Exactly!

A pp has just called anyone who voted leave a 'numpty'

Tell me you're a leftie without telling me you're a leftie.....

Name calling and derogatory comments just alienate people, your point of view then falls on deaf ears.

I can see most people don’t agree with me, but this is how I feel.

I can't see the poll but I'm surprised. It's usually more anti Brexit on mn

I don't really feel strongly, voted remain, will rtft see what pp say

Well, that's the obvious answer but you can't help some people.

As a EU citizen I actually don't think I could take the raging about Europeans for another year. I've never quite recovered from the understanding that I was surrounded by xenophobic arseholes.

I'd have liked to have left but unfortunately I'd made a home here with my British husband and children like a good little foreign type and it's not that easy to up root yourself.

So they can keep their Brexit. It hasn't actually affected me as an EU citizen, I'm still here. It's only as a resident of the UK I've been shafted like my British husband who now can't travel freely and has had his employment affected.

I've still got my fancy passport that gets me everywhere I need to go. I don't know what they think they've got from it

Some excellent points there @Hugsbunny 👏

Especially

Yes, there is a proportion of the loud metropolitan elite who are angry about waiting in queues at EU immigration, not being able to use their holiday homes as much, paying more for nannies, cleaners and builders, angry about VAT on private schools being imposed. These things don't matter at all to the majority.

And

Hugsbunny · Today 21:50

Oh, and as soon as you call people who voted leave stupid you have lost the argument.

This ^ is spades! The wounded and furious left always carp on about how 'thick' and 'stupid' people are who voted to leave the EU. (Often coupled with 'racist' and 'bigoted' and 'badly educated.')

I won't even engage in conversation with such people. As you say, they lose the argument as soon as they say that. You know they've got a bright red face and smoke coming out of their nose as they type it. 😂

Absolutely laughable that you frame the last referendum as being ‘designed’ as a once-in-a-generation event. A more slapdash, careless process is hard to imagine. The only reason it couldn’t be challenged under the Vienna convention is that it was not ‘designed’ to be binding. Even David Liddington, when he was leader of the house, said that there was no need for safeguards as nobody intended to act upon the outcome. Who said it was once in a generation? Farage and his ilk were all gearing up to challenge when they thought it wasn’t going to go their way.

You may well get a major surprise of the result if there was to be another one today. Firstly, I doubt you would get enough of the population to vote for it to be considered legal as most are sick of hearing about it. Then there is still enough strength of feeling among the public it is the right way forward, which I suspect in ten years time will prove to be true.

We've already had "sore loser" and "remoaner".

Is that OK? Just so I understand.

I do think they were stupid though. Sorry. I am sure they think the same about those that voted remain. I wasn't one. I wasn't allowed. because democracy

What an appalingly small minded self centered opinion. What is right for you or your family is quite ok. But if that isn't what is right for the majority of the population, then they have every right to expect what they voted for to be enacted.

Hugsbunny · Today 21:50
Oh, and as soon as you call people who voted leave stupid you have lost the argument

Not really. 49% of the population is by definition below average intelligence.

Talk about it to everyone you meet if you like. The reaction here should have told you it would be a waste of time.