To wish Starmer would make a unilateral decision to rejoin the EU?

[Wildflowers99]

That’s all, really. Yes it would be ‘undemocratic’ but should we sacrifice national interest on the altar of a vote from 10 years ago that everyone seems to regret?

We feel adrift during a scary time, and the US has all but ghosted us.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · Today 18:50

MrsSkylerWhite · Today 18:16
That's entirely hypothetical since we'll never be allowed to rejoin.

I’m not so sure that’s case now,
MissScarletInTheBallroom, with the weird new world order. Our armed services and nuclear deterrent would be a strong reason for the European nation’s voting in favour.

Yes, but it would need a unanimous yes from the EU27, including referendums in several of those countries. It wouldn't necessarily be heads of state or national parliaments or Brussels bureaucrats who got the casting vote. It could be voters in rural France

I suspect that even those rural French voters are pretty unnerved by Putin and Trump’s antics. I believe they have the internet or at least television 😁

We’ve become the loner in the playground. Ditched our mates for the popular kids and now they’ve rejected us.

This is my logic. No, the EU isn’t perfect - it’s a bit neoliberal for my tastes and I’m sure the waste was high.

But we urgently need allies, and the US has made it very plain that it sees us, and the other Europeans, as ungrateful leeches.

Of course we can be allies without the EU but I think stronger ties, and a removal of unnecessary barriers, can only be a positive at this point. Frankly in my dream world we rejoin and it is mandated every country has to spend a minimum of 3% on defence, but that of course will not happen.

The people I know in real life barely mention Brexit - they've just carried on their lives as before.

We fucked up by leaving the EU. I think most people didn't understand what they were voting for.

Normally I'd be against unilaterally rejoining because that makes a mockery of democracy. But if we were moving into a situation of real global threat - with America gone rogue and Russia threatening - we might need to.

Clavinova

The people I know in real life barely mention Brexit - they've just carried on their lives as before.

I can pretty much guarantee that a percentage don’t want to mention it because it’s been a disaster. Very embarrassing to admit you were duped.

NotTerfNorCis · Today 19:07

We fucked up by leaving the EU. I think most people didn't understand what they were voting for.
Normally I'd be against unilaterally rejoining because that makes a mockery of democracy. But if we were moving into a situation of real global threat - with America gone rogue and Russia threatening - we might need to

This. I believe the UK would be welcomed back with the bare minimum of bureaucracy. We’ve a great deal to bring to the table in this very unstable world.

I'd rather Starmer realise that FAR FAR FAR more people DIDN'T vote for him than did and completely reform the way government is chosen in this country.

Will he do that? Doubt it, he wouldn't be in power now if it wasn't for the system that got him there.

If we had a different system our whole political history would be different based on different voting over the years.

Don't think it's really democratic to dislike a system when it doesn't work on your favour!

MissScarletInTheBallroom
We had literally the best deal of any country in the EU

Those countries who were the largest net beneficiaries of EU funding had the best deal.

I do wonder if those who supported brexit would have done so had they known what was coming given how much we need europe more than ever now.

My sibling on the forces at the time said this is what would happen as a result of brexit.

True? I have no idea. But it was a common thought that Russia was interfering in the vote to get this outcome to then attack the boarders.

It's way more complicated than that. Too complicated for a referendum tbh.

The EU have done precisely nothing to help Ukraine! Nothing to stop Russia. Very little in the way of military aid and relied largely on the U.K, France and NATO for defence! So misguided, genuinely worrying how far removed some pp are from reality.

The EU have the perfect opportunity to step up - I am going to bet my house on the fact they won’t!

Brexit has been an incredibly expensive waste. It costs us billions in bureaucracy and billions in lost trading opportunities.

Well, yes - look at the complications of deporting an EU citizen if they haven't found work;

Your host country can ask you to leave if you can't prove that you have a realistic chance of finding work there.

In exceptional cases, your host country can deport you on grounds of public policy, public security, or public health - but only if it can prove you pose a serious threat.

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/residence-rights/index_en.htm#just-moved-1

Agreed. The people I know who voted leave never talk about Brexit, they must feel duped at least to an extent.
I don't think its quite as taboo as the subject of covid though, I know people lost the plot during that time and behaved like hysterical lunatics. Even family members who were so over the top, they now never want to talk about those times ever again because they are just so embarrassed of how they behaved.

That's not what I was talking about.

Hypothetical complications around the ability to deport EU citizens haven't actually been a major issue for the UK.

The last thing we need to be doing is deporting EU citizens, @Clavinova. The UK would grind to an halt.

It’s unlikely that many are not in work. Our local hospital is almost completely staffed by EU citizens (and others from around the world) at every level, from porters and HCAs to surgeons. My husband’s life has recently been saved by an exceptionally skilled surgeon from Bulgaria.

Those arriving in the pre-Brexit world usually wanted nothing more than to work as hard as they could and send as much money home as they were able.

It’s not up to me but most polls show little change in opinions. Which is irrelevant, given the actual question asked by the thread heading

The terms of rejoining would be so deeply unappealing even the most ardent remainer wouldn’t vote for it.

There is no chance of either a referendum or rejoining so this is a redundant thread.

You might have been right six months ago. The world’s now changed dramatically. All of us in this region need to stick together now because the rest of the world doesn’t give a shit about us.

Exactly. Its funny how many Conservatives have suddenly realised we have a terrible voting system when it has been unfit for purpose for decades. The Tories had a chance to change it as part of the coalition but they obfuscated,only agreed to put forward a system that wasn't actually even PR and then campaigned against it. This isn't a new system that somehow Labour invented in order to get elected somehow before they were elected.

I voted remain, and it would be in my interests as the education tax would be illegal, but I really don't think this would be ok or any good for democracy!

What?? The EU have done absolutely nothing and your best idea is to ‘stick’ to them?? It beggars belief.
Literally strapping yourself in on the titanic.

What else do you suggest now the US has buggered off?

It's often discussed on Mumsnet - in fact I've just checked and there was a discussion on the Brexit threads two weeks ago. A remain poster has posted duff information although she doesn't realise it.