Page 37 | To think free bus passes for the old should be abolished?

Bumpitybumper · 2025-02-27T10:11:12+00:00

Statistics show that on average wealth peaks at age 65-74 in the UK, why then do we give these people free bus passes? It makes absolutely no sense at all and is just an unnecessary expense. The idea that 'young' pensioners are a relatively poor group of people is completely incorrect and it only serves to enhance the already massive intergenerational wealth gap between baby boomers and everyone else.

Original poster

Bumpitybumper · 01/03/2025 12:13

Mytholmroyd · 01/03/2025 12:09

Where I live they have reduced the bus service so much that now I suspect only pensioners use it. There are no buses in the morning earlier enough to get people to work or school and none after 4.30 from the town back into the village.

If pensioners stopped using it I doubt we would have one at all.

But this is what I mean about it being a self fulfilling thing. Pensioners are the ones incentivised to use the buses as the state pays their fare. They use the routes and buses that suit them. When reviewing what routes are most popular then these are the ones that are preserved rather than the ones that might benefit other age groups more who don't use the bus because they have to pay and isn't free for them

OP posts:

Lostcat · 01/03/2025 13:22

Bumpitybumper · 01/03/2025 11:05

@ThePiglet I agree completely but this kind of sensible and reasoned post will fall on deaf ears. You are jealous, mean spirited and resentful for even daring to question whether 65-74 year olds should be entitled to a free bus pass. You will be accused of wanting all pensioners to die alone in cold houses (at least 6 posters have accused me of this). You can see why politicians largely don't dare to tackle this group in the way that they happily target working people despite the fact that the younger people don't have a hope in hell of being as wealthy at retirement age as the current group of 65-74 year olds.

There is great affection in this country for our older people and I think most people have a visceral response to the idea that we are taking something away from them. Many of us have grown up with the idea that pensioners are the poorest in society but this simply isn't true anymore. Young pensioners are now the wealthiest but some people are completely unwilling to even acknowledge this objective fact that can be corroborated by lots of official sources. As long as this continues then resources will be allocated according to age as opposed to need which is something I fundamentally disagree with.

There is great affection in this country for our older people

ahahahahahahahaha. If you actually think this it just demonstrates how warped your perceptions are.

Waitfortheguinness · 01/03/2025 14:38

There is great affection in this country for our older people
ahahahahahahahaha. If you actually think this it just demonstrates how warped your perceptions are

agree, us oldies are totally useless and basically just get in the way…….but at the same time we’re kinda cute, so it’s nice to have us around 😂

Grammarnut · 01/03/2025 14:42

Bumpitybumper · 01/03/2025 11:39

A) I completely agree hence again why I was on the bus. I generally am a massive fan of public transport. If we have a budget of £700 million though to spend on concessionary travel then I don't believe that targeting those aged 65-74 with free bus passes is anymore environmentally friendly than targeting other age groups. Arguably if we could switch more commuters of working age to using public transport over driving to work each day then this would have the biggest impact on congestion and 'saved' journeys.

B) this is obviously because even with the government effectively paying for pensioner travel then the bus routes weren't being used enough to be economically viable. If we want to use the £700 million to keep bus routes open then we should be looking strategically at which routes are most needed for a whole range of factors. Not making some buses seemingly economically viable but only because that particular bus route is favoured by pensioners that are using it because they get to travel for free. Can't you see how this can skew the statistics? If we allowed 35-45 year olds to travel for free then it is totally possible that a completely different set of bus routes would magically become economically viable because they are the buses this group of people prefer to use.

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Well, I agree with you. Maybe we should target a different group. Just not because pensioners don't deserve bus passes because they are rich!

DazedDragon · 01/03/2025 15:03

@Bumpitybumper my parents are in their 70s and wealthy.

If they had to pay for a bus pass, they wouldn't - they'd use their car instead.

Not only does their free bus pass keep their car off the road, it also means they nip into town all the time and spend their money going to the theatre, shopping etc... which helps keep local businesses and the local economy afloat. If they had to drive, park etc... they certainly wouldn't do that anywhere near as often.

Public transport in the UK is expensive. They should be encouraging as many people as possible to use buses, and they need to bring back the £2 single bus fare scheme that they ended, as far more people then used the bus instead of car.

So maybe get pensioners to pay £1 for each bus journey then make public transport cheaper for everyone!?

StrawberrySquash · 01/03/2025 15:23

Goldfishgreen · 27/02/2025 10:16

I thought half of the argument for free bud passes was to encourage people too infirm to be driving from getting in their cars. This I fully support, whatever their income levels!

In general we want to encourage people out of their cars. This is an argument in favour of making local bus travel free as a public good.

Londonismyjam · 01/03/2025 19:08

Digdongdoo · 27/02/2025 16:40

Why not though? If you need money, and have assets the obvious solution, and the one that would be forced upon anyone else, is to liquidate them.

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🙄

Pootle23 · 01/03/2025 20:40

Bumpitybumper · 28/02/2025 17:12

My parents became adults in the late 70s. Both from lower class households but went to university funded by the government with a grant for living expenses. Both got graduate jobs easily and bought a detached house at 22. The same house would now be unaffordable for people in those same jobs, let alone at that age. The 70s certainly weren't awful for everyone.

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Your parents were very lucky. It wasn’t that simple for many of exactly the same era. Depends on where they lived.

Plus, I notice everyone appears to have forgotten the recession, and then mortgage rates of 16% in the early 90’s. The rents were less, but so were wages. There was no minimum wage and we had the joy of paying poll tax too.

I guess if you now live in a wealthy area you see lots of wealthy pensioners. However, in the real world there are pensioners of all levels.

Being told we never contributed anything and it was so easy is bloody insulting!

Started work at 14, full time at 18 after technical college and still working now. when I started work state pension age was 60, then 65 and currently 67…who knows what it will be next.

No free university as even with the grants available in the day you still needed parental support…none available for me. Plus where I lived it was only the really bright people that went, especially women.

Never claimed maternity (if I had it would have been 3 months). Never claimed child benefits as unable to have children). Never claimed any type of benefits. Worked my way up through the company. With the introduction and then all the rises in minimum wage I’m not on loads more than the 21 year old with zero experience as the original wage earners did not get the same percentage in rises over the years.

Keep being told the young have no chance, but the young people I work with save no money at all, they spend spend spend (which is fine, as their choice), but then whinge they can’t afford a house etc. At our place they all work part time too as apparently they need “me time”, bless.

To buy our house, we had no holidays for 10 years, don’t constantly drink alcohol, don’t smoke or go out constantly. Paid for all our prescriptions, glasses etc. We saved every spare penny and during lean times ate beans or toast, no takeaways or eating out, but yet we are now judged for owning our home and you want to remove our bus pass entitlement at 60.

Rosiecidar · 01/03/2025 20:56

It's not binary. Just because pensioners get free bus passes doesn't mean people below a certain age in full time shouldn't have free passes as well.
I think the age is too low, where I work people earning 100k a year are using free bus passes. I would make them in line in the state pension age.
There is however a big difference that seems to be forgotten, when you are a pensioner you don't always have the ability to add to your income, you are basically living on fixed means.

Dressingdown1 · 01/03/2025 21:13

In my area you can't get a pensioner's bus pass until you reach pension age, currently at the age of 66 and due to.increase to 67 in the next few years

rainydaysandrainbows · 01/03/2025 21:17

There are a lot of low income pensioners what does the OP suppose they do? Stay home and wait to die?

rainydaysandrainbows · 01/03/2025 21:22

Bumpitybumper · 01/03/2025 11:54

I think this is where the disagreement ultimately lies. If you took away free bus passes from those aged 65-74 years old then they would be free to buy a ticket and use the buses like the rest of society. Nobody would be forcing them off a bus or trapping them in their houses. So the argument isn't about whether this age group should be using buses which of course they would always be at liberty to use but whether the government should be funding them to do so when they don't fund other groups that suffer from higher levels of poverty and have a lower median net wealth. It's a financial benefit so financial considerations are very important.

The other arguments I have heard for this group being prioritised have tended to centre on a few things that I fundamentally disagree with:

Public safety concerns about old people driving - not a huge issue until people turn 75+
People think they are 'entitled' to a bus pass having paid taxes all their lives - it has been proven that this age group will be net beneficiaries on the welfare system so will get more than they have paid in without the free bus passes being issues
There are poor pensioners - young pensioners are actually relatively wealthy and enjoy low levels of poverty.
Only poor people catch buses so what does it matter anyway? - lots of posters suggesting the opposite is true in many areas
Free bus passes help to keep bus routes open - the £700 million spent on concessionary travel will always help keep bus routes open. If you reallocated it to other groups then this would also keep bus routes open, just other people would be using the buses
Free bus passes keep people off the roads and are green - again, this would be true for all age groups if they were given a bus pass. Arguably peak travel is the biggest issue so it would be better for the purposes of congestion and air quality to target commuters rather than pensioners.

There you go! That's the complex arguments you have alluded to and that's what I think of them. Like you say, I'm sure you think differently and that's fine.

But you are glossing over the fact there are poor pensioners? Are you suggesting they don't matter? Do you not care that they would be even more isolated?

Libraries are closing so they can't go there to keep warm, winter fuel payment was removed from even those receiving only a state pension, there is rampant ageism and now Op suggests getting rid of bus passes.

As someone in their 30s I think OPs attitude is awful. The OP would not be allowed to make these comments about any other section of society.

AcquadiP · 01/03/2025 21:30

tropicalroses · 27/02/2025 10:19

Then they should equity release or downsize. Why should I fund them because all their money is tied up in a massive house?

There are lots of reasons for free bus passes, and things. The fact their money is tied up in property isn't a reason I can get on board with!

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When I retire in 5 years' time, I'll have worked full time for 46 years and I've paid a huge amount of tax during my career. You're not funding my bus pass, I've done that.

Portakalkedi · 01/03/2025 21:31

Of course all benefits should be means tested, but it's not going to happen. For example there are many wealthy people getting benefits for their children, plus free childcare, free breakfasts/lunches at school etc. Not to mention all the general benefit fraud. The whole system needs a huge overhaul, as with the NHS, but no government will tackle it.

XenoBitch · 01/03/2025 21:31

rainydaysandrainbows · 01/03/2025 21:17

There are a lot of low income pensioners what does the OP suppose they do? Stay home and wait to die?

According to some, sell all their belongings, including their house, until they have nothing left. Then they might get a bus pass.

user1484264563 · 01/03/2025 21:41

Again with this divisive nonsense; your statement is wrong and oversimplified; they are the second wealthiest group not the most and generally that wealth falls away significantly after 75; read this 👇

ilcuk.org.uk/beyond-the-numbers-understanding-the-wealth-of-our-older-population/

MontyDonsBlueScarf · 01/03/2025 21:49

user1484264563 · 01/03/2025 21:41

Again with this divisive nonsense; your statement is wrong and oversimplified; they are the second wealthiest group not the most and generally that wealth falls away significantly after 75; read this 👇

ilcuk.org.uk/beyond-the-numbers-understanding-the-wealth-of-our-older-population/

Well said and thank you.

JudgeJ · 01/03/2025 21:55

My opinions are based on statistics

Well, there's your first mistake, to worship statistics, those that support your own prejudice! The Use and Abuse of Statistics, Daryl Huff, should be compulsory reading for those who quote statistics!

LottiePa · 01/03/2025 22:42

Bumpitybumper · 27/02/2025 10:31

I'm not saying we means test the free bus pass. My argument is that that poor people up and down the country would benefit from getting out and about how you describe. Nothing magically happens at 65 that means this group should automatically qualify for a bus pass which are ultimately subsidised by younger people. These young people are statistically far less wealthy than those over 65 and don't qualify for the bus pass.

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They get the bus pass when they retire! That is what “magically” happens at 65! This reducing their income significantly and living off pensions.

You don’t seem to grasp the fact that these people have paid taxes their whole working lives so they have already contributed to the system more than anyone else.

When you’re 65 and you’ve contributed the same, you will get a bus pass.

You seem to be seriously lacking respect and come across so entitled.

LBFseBrom · 01/03/2025 23:26

Let's not forget a lot of pensioners do pay tax on their income and savings.

Cornishclio · 01/03/2025 23:49

Pensioners get the free bus pass because they may be struggling with their health and mobility and keeping them out of cars is a good idea. That would be the case for younger poor people too but they can walk further presumably. As always these things come down to money and no doubt we cannot afford to give everyone free bus travel so giving concessions to pensioners, like the free prescriptions is one way of making sure everyone eventually gets it.

GreenTeaLikesMe · 02/03/2025 03:27

I’m looking at the current situation in Europe and the fact that the US has basically abandoned Europe. Europe is going to have to look after itself and greatly boost its defense spending, even while the walls continue to close in on us in fiscal terms. The wolf is at the door.

Meanwhile, we have people on here saying things like “The old ladies round our way love sitting on the bus! Half the time they don’t even actually go anywhere, they just enjoy sitting there having a chat for half the morning! Isn’t it lovely for them?”

Yes, very heartwarming. On the other hand, do you all have any idea how much councils are paying to reimburse the bus firms for all these free fares? How much are you all prepared to lose in bin collections and pot hole fixing, to pay for all this? How much more council tax are you prepared to pay, at a time when other, national taxes are also going to be ratcheted up as well in order to pay for increased defense and the aging population’s pensions? Perhaps those old ladies, nice though they are, could find another way to socialize.

We facing a harsh new world in terms of fiscal realities, geopolitical threats and aging demographics. A lot of “nice” stuff like free bus trips, free school taxis, free dog poo bins, PIP for half the population, the triple lock and a host of other nice things are going to have to go, or be cut back a lot and means-tested heavily. Is that nice for the people who lose out? No, but I’m afraid I don’t have any other solution here.

As these rather unfortunate and painful processes play themselves out, the Tories will huff and puff about how nasty and mean the horrible Labour Party is to take away people’s free buses and winter fuel and all these things….while carefully making sure that they never actually promise to bring back any of the things that have been cut (winter fuel, free bus fares or what have you). For the simple reason that they are uncomfortably aware that when they eventually get back to power, they will not be able to bring them back because they simply will not have the bloody money.

beguilingeyes · 02/03/2025 10:25

You're going to really resent me, OP. I live in London. I'm 63 and get a free Oyster Card. So not only buses but tube, trains, trams etc. It's a godsend and means I hardly ever drive and go out in London a lot more than if I had to pay £10 a trip. Got it at 60.
Under 16s get a lot of free travel in London too. Sadiq rocks.

Mytholmroyd · 02/03/2025 11:56

@GreenTeaLikesMe I am not sure those arguments about us not having enough money to pay for us to have a good life wash anymore though when there are billions of pounds always available to send overseas. It's astonishing that they keep on doing that. The optics are really bad.

I am struggling to understand what our government is for anymore if its only purpose is to suck us dry to pay for things that make us (them) look good on the world stage. If we have no money that has to stop. And the scale of it is shocking.

I really thought Labour would stop that nonsense and look after the people but no. They have chosen wrongly in my opinion.

LBFseBrom · 02/03/2025 12:41

beguilingeyes · 02/03/2025 10:25

You're going to really resent me, OP. I live in London. I'm 63 and get a free Oyster Card. So not only buses but tube, trains, trams etc. It's a godsend and means I hardly ever drive and go out in London a lot more than if I had to pay £10 a trip. Got it at 60.
Under 16s get a lot of free travel in London too. Sadiq rocks.

Good for you! Long may that continue.