To think free bus passes for the old should be abolished?

[Bumpitybumper]

Statistics show that on average wealth peaks at age 65-74 in the UK, why then do we give these people free bus passes? It makes absolutely no sense at all and is just an unnecessary expense. The idea that 'young' pensioners are a relatively poor group of people is completely incorrect and it only serves to enhance the already massive intergenerational wealth gap between baby boomers and everyone else.

My Dad got his bus pass at age 65. He never learned to drive, either walked or caught the bus to work, to take us as little girls out for the day. Same with Mum. His bus pass became his hobby pass, he would pack up lunch, grab his brolly, and take off for a day somewhere to go find out about local history. He went all over our County area, visiting museums, works libraries, anywhere that was of interest to him. It broke his heart when he became too frail to go on his own, but we then stepped in and took him out, with Mum, whenever we got the chance. A lot of the bus drivers knew him, looked out for him. It kept him busy, active, interested in doing things. He wasn’t rich, just comfortable. Same with Mum, she had regular meet ups to see her friends a couple of times a week, and they both could get out and about to see their friends at afternoon dance sessions. Kept them both fit and active. I don’t begrudge anyone having a little perk that helps them do this.

If they abolish our OAP travel card DH says it would be cheaper to live in Switzerland (not that we can afford the train ticket to get there or that they would let us in - thanks again Brexit!).

please don’t take one of our few pleasures away!

Posts about dear little old ladies on here are sweet I am sure, but hardly constitute a sound argument for giving away free bus passes at the age we are currently doing it. Make them pay till 75 at least, seriously.

Let me rewrite that for you

"We should pay until we are 75, at least , seriously "

Because one day you too will be old

I never use my bus pass.
I prefer it when my chauffeur drops me at Aldi in the Bentley.

Yes, that’s fine. Is it supposed to be some kind of a gotcha?

HRTFT as it's far too long!
But no, they shouldn't be abolished. And not everyone who gets a free bus pass is wealthy! It enables older people to get out and about, without having to worry about extra costs. Have you not heard of pensioner poverty?! Some of them can't afford to heat their homes and you're talking about abolishing bus passes?!
I don't begrudge them free travel at all! Are you paying for the diesel for the buses? And how exactly does it impact you?! I find the tone of your post insulting. You've clearly got a grudge about someone, but yeah, let's include all pensioners! 🙄

these 'rich' old people have bankrolled the rest of society all their working lives. the people who have children they can't afford have been supported by the now rich pensioners. this may be the only freebie they have received in their lives. besides, if they have large pensions, they are still paying loads of tax to support everyone else.

Look, we are all paying for the bloody diesel, and the bus driver wages. The cost of “free” bus journeys is reimbursed by councils. From taxes.

We should be raising the age limit and also means testing, using the same means test as the fuel payment.

[Saying at the start again that I don't particularly care if OAPs get free bus passes!]

Come just because you're a wealthy pensioner does not mean you've bankrolled anyone. This isn't a pensioner thing - the idea that anyone wealthy is bankrolling others is dependent on a very narrow view that wealth has come from taxable income.

For example, my mother hasn't been a particularly high earner in her life. There are perfectly good reasons for this, and I don't judge her, but it's fact - she's a teacher and I don't think she worked full time after my sister (eldest child) was born. She was retired from teaching by 55, I can't remember exactly what ate. A lot of this is because of a chronic illness which has required extensive medical treatment (on the NHS). As I said I don't judge my mother (the fact she worked at all past about 40 is pretty impressive given the medical condition!). She is wealthy but her wealth hadn't come from employment income - it's inheritance, money from my dad who was a high earner (both splitting assets and spousal support post divorce), and property price increases. Of course you can say that she supported my dad to be a high earner etc etc but that still doesn't change the position that she is wealthy without having actually bankrolled anyone. She has paid tax of course, and still does, but her money is carefully structured in investments to minimise that (as is the case for most wealthy people).

I also find the notion that a group gets something because they've bankrolled others really dangerous because it suggests that people who pay more into the system are more worthy that others when at the end of the day most people who are wealthy aren't wealthy because they've worked harder than others, but because of luck. I'm (independent of my parents) wealthy and a high earner and I've worked bloody hard, but I still recognise that it's mainly due to luck and someone else could have spent their life working just as hard and not being wealthy. If my mum was poor she wouldn't be less deserving of her bus pass.

Most countries do not offer non means tested universal free bus travel to retirees, by the way. The UK is unusual. In the NL, for example, you have to have a low income to qualify. https://www.amsterdam.nl/werk-inkomen/hulp-bij-laag-inkomen/regelingen-alfabet/gratis-bus-tram-metro-aow'ers/

One consequence of having so many bus passes is that over time, it distorts the delivery of services, with loads of services being offered in the middle of the day while commuting-timed services in the morning and evening are not frequent or sufficient. This makes it hard to actually create a meaningful shift away from cars and is part of a general pattern of the UK ending up with clogged, poorly connected cities because it is prioritizing warm fuzzies over hard choices.

Means testing usually costs more overall than just giving the passes

In my area under 16s get a bus pass and the buses are full of school kids riding one or two stops when they could easily walk. They cram in with their cheap fried chicken, leave litter etc. no wonder there is so much obesity. Why not have a go at them OP?

We should be raising the age limit and also means testing, using the same means test as the fuel payment.

It just looks like spite at this point. Mean spirited.

I wish people would stop equating the perfectly reasonable idea that a state benefit should be means tested with wanting to round up all old people and lock them up.
The hyperboles are ridiculous.
”You don’t want to see old people out and about?”
”Pensioners should be treated with respect”
”One day you will be old”.

How on earth is it mean spirited to only give a benefit to those in more need of it?
We operate almost every other benefit that way.

”Pensioners should be treated with respect”
”One day you will be old”

In what ways are these hyperbole?

Indeed, some German cities hand out free Deutschlandtickets to seniors who surrender their driving licences. The fewer 80 year olds found driving the wrong way down a motorway or confusing their brake and throttle pedals the better.

In what way are they relevant? Means testing a benefit for the wealthiest sub category of society isn’t disrespectful and it’s ludicrous to suggest it is.
We can’t just keep paying people because they are old.

This sounds like spite. There wouldn’t be loads more money in the coffers without the bus pass. Being old is rubbish for many a small perk is one nice thing about it. How about taxing the real wealthy in this country and hitting big corporations etc.

They are actually the group that most need it. They are the least likely to be driving. I love that my parents have a bus pass. It's massively helped my father to accept he isn't as confident a driver as he once was without his world narrowing too much. I don't drive myself, so I can't ferry them everywhere.

I’d imagine, statistically, there are many more positives to pensioners having bus passes. They can maintain activities if they can no longer run a car due to sight issues etc. stops them becoming lonely. Keeps them independent. Pensioners on low incomes can no longer work to make up the difference in their pension against cost of living. We also still have an elderly generation where less learned to drive, especially women.

I do think we should campaign for free transport for children in post 16 education though. I have to find over £200 term for bus fare for my college child which is crippling.

Don't they get that at all, now? It used to be the case (mind you, I'm going back 30 years now) that unless there was a nearer college offering the course your child is studying, you got a pass. Terrible if that's not available now.

In what way are the statements you cited, hyperbole?

I'll give you a clue: they aren't.

It’s a complete exaggeration ie a hyperbole to suggest a supporting the means testing of a benefit equates to wanting to lock all old people up during the day and that you can’t possibly respect older people at all if you don’t support free buss passes for all of them.

It’s not hard.