To think free bus passes for the old should be abolished?

[Bumpitybumper]

Statistics show that on average wealth peaks at age 65-74 in the UK, why then do we give these people free bus passes? It makes absolutely no sense at all and is just an unnecessary expense. The idea that 'young' pensioners are a relatively poor group of people is completely incorrect and it only serves to enhance the already massive intergenerational wealth gap between baby boomers and everyone else.

@MontyDonsBlueScarf

1. It increases off peak bus use. Providing passes to people already travelling doesn't. This helps bus companies keep routes open. This is just a shorthand way of saying that the government is effectively subsidising some bus routes by paying for pensioner's travel. If the government wants to subsidise bus companies to keep specific routes going then I would rather they took a more strategic view of each route rather than being driven by how many pensioners use them just because they're free. Public money shouldn't be spent keeping routes open that aren't essential for the community and aren't economically viable without funding a load of pensioners to use them.
2. It keeps cars off the roads. Providing passes to people who don't have cars doesn't. This could be true for subsidising any group though doesn't it? If I had a free bus pass then I would use my car less and use the bus more. If we are offering free bus passes for environmental reasons then we want to encourage people to use buses instead of cars for journeys instead of encouraging people to just take more journeys using bus passes which is potentially what you're doing more of with pensioners who often have less essential journeys to make as they are no longer working everyday or doing the school run.
3. It encourages older people to keep active and involved in their communities, keeping them healthier, contributing to the local economy, and enabling them to volunteer in places where their expertise is best used even if that's not local. Again this argument could be made for lots of groups, especially poor families with children. It can enable them to access opportunities and facilities that otherwise they couldn't reach. Volunteers come in all ages and forms.. 29% of adults over 65 volunteer compared to 25% under 65 so it's hardly as if you turn 65 and are suddenly much more likely to volunteer.

Points 1 and 2 aren't points in favour of this particular group getting a bus pass though. They're arguments for why it makes sense for a group to get a bus pass.

Point 3 applies to any group of people who are not currently working (and realistically could volunteer so possibly not carers / stay at home parents of children who need child care).

If these are the reasons why aren't we giving all unemployed people free bus passes?

I'm not desperate to take away anyone's bus pass btw but there isn't any genuine reason that my mum should get a free bus pass and an out of work 25 year old shouldn't. Even the 'paid into the system for 30 year' argument doesn't work because my mum has not been economically active most of her life - she is most definitely not a net contractor to the public purse (and if we go down the route of 'they paid their taxes' the implications are terrifying for carers/stay at home parents and people who cannot medically work).

There's no possibility the scope will be increased so that more people are eligible, and no way the government will take it off one group to give to another. With that in mind, I struggle to begrudge my mum or any one eligible to their free bus pass that pass

(If I ruled the world I'd give a free bus pass, including during peak hours, to anyone who has a driving license and voluntarily reports themselves as medically unfit to drive (and this is verified by a GP) to make not being able to drive slightly more palatable and encourage self reporting).

I bet he never takes a bus though, therefore costs the taxpayer nothing.

My parents are wealthy, haven’t claimed bus pass. My parents in law are not wealthy and have.

I know plenty of people who are old enough to have a bus pass but never use the bus.

It’s the exact same end, not sure what point you’re making? No additional administrative infrastructure would be required meaning it would not have huge costs.

Not sure why you keep banging on about your dad? If his household income is high enough why should he have free bus travel when people working minimum wage have travel costs to get to and from work?

Just as you don’t receive things like child benefit if your income is low but your partner’s is over the threshold. There’s no reason pension benefits should operate differently.

The bottom line is that the OP would not have been able to take their bus, as that bus would not be running without the revenue from concessionary fares.

I suggest the OP should spend their time actually researching the bus industry rather than responding here. It is a hugely complex area.

This just isn't the case though. There are countless people on this thread that attest to the fact that their wealthy relative uses the bus and is perfectly fit and capable of driving.
I'm not an idiot. I have linked to ONS data that proves that this age group are the wealthiest and I have proven that this group has similar poverty levels to working adults and far less poverty than working families with children. Your figure regarding pension incomes doesn't account for the fact that many pensioners have lower outgoings, critically including lower costs for housing.

Because his bus pass is for him, and not the household. My mum could be financially abusive, and not give him money for bus fare.
Same with PIP... it is for the individual.

How do you know that? The bus is very popular and lots of the people on it would prefer to use it over driving (like me!). I would bet good money that the majority would have simply paid to go on the bus.

For someone that asserts about then complexity of the bus industry then you should be wary of making such claims about a bus route that you know nothing about.

Exactly.

Perhaps it's area dependent but this is exactly what the vast majority of people were doing on the bus I was on today. The bus route really exists for leisure purposes as do quite a few others. I live in a tourist area though so perhaps this is why those that live in other areas find it hard to believe that there are 'nice' buses that people use for leisure purposes.

Should be means tested. Fuel payments and bus passes don't need to be given to well off retirees.

Fuel payments go to a household... everyone benefits.
A bus pass is for the individual. If they become means tested then someone on just the basic pension could be denied them because of what the other people in the household have.

Having been addicted to their cars for several decades my parents have actually started using public transport since it became free for them, as have many of their friends. The benefits of this are:

1. They and their well-off boomer buddies are WAY more interested in public transport provision than they ever were before, and more likely to advocate/vote for it. .. and they actually have the time to write to their MP / local paper.
2. by sitting on a bus that runs half-empty most of the time anyway, they're not costing the taxpayer anything (because they'd use their car if the bus wasn't free) but they ARE increasing passenger numbers on the route, so the council is less likely to cut it.
3. The centre of the nearest town was laid out before the Tudors came to power, so anything that reduces the number of people plodding round the one way system and trying to find a parking space is a good thing.

Oh come on you know you can move for £2 and have change! Honestly some of the posts are so ridiculous. If the posters have brains shame they don't use them

I'm not sure who it's more expensive for if buses are only used by pensioners with passes. There is an income as the bus company get paid every time a pass is used

I'm all for means-tested passes.

Even if that costs more to implement that the current system?

Means testing costs more than it saves.

Oh & the awful Boomers sometimes even leave inheritances for their DC & GC.
Boomer bashers don’t often refuse them.
A civilised society looks after older people.
You will all be old one day. See how you get on with worn out bodies. It’s certainly easier to get the bus to my local hospital & I have 4 different referrals at the moment. Parking can cost up to £5/£10 a session. Would love to see current posters comments in 30/40 years time.

My husband never takes the bus. He gets violently travel sick. It is a worry as he is nearly 80 and disabled so the time will come when he has to give up driving but it will mean he can't go anywhere.

@richardosmanstrousers Does it?

There are plenty of poor old people.
They are the ones who use passes most.
Richer ones drive or get taxis.
Administering means testing is likely to cost more than running a universal scheme.
YABU

DD recently took a trip on a bus in our very rural area and noticed that a little group of quite elderly ladies sitting chatting on the bus didn't actually get off at all and just rode the bus an hour and a half back again 😂

I’m interested in how many people who are advocating very vociferously for means testing the bus passes will be quite as keen when they are eligible for their free bus passes. In the context of this is subsided railway cards for different categories. Admittedly, these have to be paid for, but save a lot of money in the long run as each railway ticket costs 1/3 less than the full adult fare. I am now semi-retired, but I have had a disabled person’s railcard for several years because I am deaf and I was earning decent money when I bought it. By your logic, I should not have been eligible for it as I was earning too much money.