To think free bus passes for the old should be abolished?

[Bumpitybumper]

Statistics show that on average wealth peaks at age 65-74 in the UK, why then do we give these people free bus passes? It makes absolutely no sense at all and is just an unnecessary expense. The idea that 'young' pensioners are a relatively poor group of people is completely incorrect and it only serves to enhance the already massive intergenerational wealth gap between baby boomers and everyone else.

I posted a link by the ONS that proves that they are the wealthiest group whether you like it or not. There are poor people in all demographics but young pensioners are no poorer than the average person and there are a lot less pensioners in poverty than families with children. I posted a graph up thread to prove this.

Does it mean that all pensioners are loaded and rolling in it? Absolutely not, but it does seem odd to target this group for a benefit like a free bus pass and overlook more obvious candidates like families with children that have much lower levels of wealth on average and higher rates of poverty. Do you disagree?

I disagree. I think bus fares are cheap enough, i.e. £3 recently up from just £2.

The big problem, especially outside London and a few other big cities, is that public transport is too crap to be usable in lots of areas.

I think improving public transport generally would have a much bigger impact than making it free.

If your village doesn't have a bus service, or your town's buses stop early evening, then it doesn't matter how cheap it is, you can't use a bus that isn't there!

Seems like a win, but everyone is flying everwhere nowadays, would this even make a difference?

Well I would fund the public transport through frequent flyer taxes

Didn't realise I was writing a manifesto though !

Bus passes that are not used, cost nothing!

A few years is what we will most likely get, as we will be working much longer.

Agree, my DM drives & rarely uses her free bus pass, MIL doesn’t drive & uses hers a lot !

In Scotland young people also get free bus travel. Fine, if it's used sensibly to go to and from college or work but it's turning into a nightmare in my area.
Hordes of teenagers travel to neighbouring town to drink and cause havoc.
It has led to several assaults on, and even the death of a bus driver.

People on UC are eligible for jobcentre plus travel discount card if they are looking for work. In Scotland at least but I'm sure there's a similar scheme in England.

I mentioned this earlier, it's causing an increase in abuse.

I think anything that incentivises elderly people to give up driving when they become a danger to themselves and others is a good thing.

My own grandfather is 90 and still driving a massive land rover, he won't downsize car because he's always had a land rover. He tootles 2 minutes drive to the shops once a week and drives to his Drs appointments another 3 minute drive away. If the car does 8miles a week that's it. He won't give up his car because the busses are not frequent enough, they don't go where he wants to go, taxis are too expensive - he has every excuse going for not giving up the car. We've already used the taxis are cheaper than insuring the car, we will drive you ect. He passed his eye test, the GP says he can drive, he fills out his renewal paperwork for driving when it comes up and off he goes. My dad plans to hide the keys and sell the car the moment he has a bump but so far he's not had any.

Our local Morrison's car park and indeed town centre between 10am and 1.30 pm on a Thursday and Saturday is basically bumper cars with the sheer volume of elderly drivers on the road. Every Thursday and Saturday there are multiple bumps/ scrapes and near misses posted on our local community Facebook page with offending car number plate and 99,% of the time it's "sorry that's my elderly mother's/ fathers car, we are trying to make them give up driving, please can you report this" responses.

The other day I saw a woman who was pushing 90 nearly run over a young child at the zebra crossing, she basically approached the crossing and continued to drive over the crossing at speed whilst a young family were on the crossing. It was as if she didn't see them. Incident later ended up on Facebook, it seems the elderly lady in question is a notoriously dangerous driver and has had several near misses and bumps over the past couple of years. I've seen elderly people park in car parks by basically bumper car logic of bump, go forward, bump, reverse, bump turn wheel.

I did actually report an elderly driver to 101 a few months ago after following them through town. All over the road, had a near miss with a pedestrian, nearly hit a bike. Pulled into the supermarket car park and then bumper car parked hitting the trolley bay twice. 101 did actually ring me back and thank me for reporting.

Perhaps more stringent checks need to be made on elderly drivers as well as just filling out the form for renewal every couple of years. Even a requirement to do a few advanced driving lessons with an instructor would help.

Who do you think funded your education, healthcare, the infrastructure and services you used before you became a tax payer? That's assuming you are currently a net contributor - which if you have children or claim any benefits, you won't be? If pensioners are currently on anything but basic SP, they will still be funding you through taxation.

Surely wealthy pensioners don’t use buses? The cost is in the use of the pass, not the minimal cost of the creation of it

I guess I assume the vast majority of people using free bus passes do so because they can no longer afford cars, or never could.

I can’t see retired bankers queuing up for the 12A?

For many people who cannot drive, it is their only means of getting around. My late father (who could not drive) refused to leave South London to join us in Wiltshire simply because the public transport was so poor he would have been isolated and unable to get to doctor's/hospital appointments etc. with the same ease as he could in London.

As for making it means tested, I suspect the cost of the admin would far outweigh any savings made.

FWIW I am approaching 70 my wife and I both have a car (Ford Focus in both cases) and neither of us has ever applied for a bus pass as we have no need of one.

YABU and the "problem" you describe exists solely in your own mind.

@Bumpitybumper
You're not very good at reading a graph are you?
The poverty rate in 2020 for pensioners and adults without children is EQUAL at 18%.
I wonder what it will be this year with the winter fuel allowance gone?
Also free TV licences stopped in 2020, unless you were on pension credit.

Pensioners only are wealthy when relatively young because they need to be able to pay for their future .. care and the like. I think I'd rather pay for free bus passes than pick up a bigger care bill

Not all pensioners are wealthy - there is the same proportion of very poor pensioners as any other age group so you would have to means test it

Who would bother saving for a pension if it's going to become a fund to raid ?

The op isn't thinking it through

Out of all the things people have when they don't need it getting on a bus when they can just drive or get a taxi as a wealthy pensioner isn't one of them.

I think this is nonsense

Loads of reasons why car owners would take public transport

My parents and most of their friends are all wealthy and all use the bus regularly

It's far more convenient for the city centre and for the hospital than driving/parking

They also own cars and use them for other things

Tbh all this thread has done is sell this idea to me even more!

Edit - oh, and prove that people can’t have a civilised conversation even on an issue that is clearly debatable and not one with an objective right/ wrong answer.

It only gets charged when it's used, do you really think those with the Range Rovers are queuing up to hop on the bus

I think it's wonderful we provide free bus passes. Of it makes you feel any better OP in Scotland young people also get to travel free on public transport.

That goes without saying as far as I’m concerned! But the poster I was answering seemed to think that “most people don’t live in London” equated “most bus journeys don’t happen in London”, which is demonstrably false.

' It is incredibly frustrating and just stands in the way of genuine debate.'

OP, genuine debate is all about people being free to share opinions that are different from yours.

Not to mention people having the right to point out that demonising and making assumptions about an entire group of people simply based on their age is indeed ageism...

I presumed exactly the opposite.

This is another goady ageist thread, website is full of them