To think free bus passes for the old should be abolished?

[Bumpitybumper]

Statistics show that on average wealth peaks at age 65-74 in the UK, why then do we give these people free bus passes? It makes absolutely no sense at all and is just an unnecessary expense. The idea that 'young' pensioners are a relatively poor group of people is completely incorrect and it only serves to enhance the already massive intergenerational wealth gap between baby boomers and everyone else.

Most people in the UK don't live in London, so your point is pretty irrelevant to the majority.

I think it should be restricted to 3 times a week and off peak only. Most buses do z cheap day ticket if more needed. Buses by me are empty most of the time anyway.

My mother was a danger on the road, had a bus pass but wouldn't use it.

That's very sad to hear that their horizons are so limited even though they are comfortably off in older age

It's a thing on MN, our generation is responsible for all the evils in the world. I'm so sick of it all.

No, the bus company aren't doing it for free, but if people with free bus passes aren't using the bus, maybe it becomes unsustainable to run a route and so the people who need it to get to work/ university etc are now stuck.

Good, affordable public public transport has a long list of societal benefits. The discussion should be about opening it up to a wider range of people, not limiting it.

I get the bus on a fairly regular basis and during the day most of the passengers are either elderly or mums with small children who travel for free. I don't begrudge them as the more people using buses the less likely they are to cut them.

As a person who lives on basically the state pension I don't get upset that free nursery hours aren't means tested even though it's going to some families who don't need it. It's all part and parcel of living in a welfare state. Ultimately we all benefit at various stages of our lives.

If the buses are empty most of the time anyway, why would you want to restrict elderly people's ability to use them, other than out of sheer mean-spiritedness?

The statistics are available from the ONS and show that this age group has the highest Median wealth. I think though your questions are trying to imply that there are lots more poor pensioners than there are poor people in the general population. This graph disproves your assertion and proves that young pensioners especially (who are the wealthiest of pensioners by far) aren't in anymore poverty or hardship than everyone else and it is in fact those with children that struggle the most.

I haven't shown either ageism of envy anywhere in the thread, you are projecting your own views and fears onto my posts.

I'm merely breaking down the automatic assumption and stereotype that all pensioners should always get a huge amount of public spending by default and that they are a always a meritorious generation who have "worked all their lives". A number of them have spent more than half their lives not working or have barely had a job at all.

Let's hope when he passes away he leaves all his money to charity and you and your husband don't inherit anything because you sound horrible and don't deserve it.

Some gov stats from 2022 for England.
London (pop: 8.9 mn): 1.62 bn bus journeys
Rest of England (pop: 48.2 mn): 1.47 bn bus journeys

So, pretty relevant.

Can you answer my question now, please?

If you want them to give up driving then free bus pass seems sensible

Yes just after retirement is when people are at their richest - because that had to fund them and any possible future care

Means testing state pension will never go down well so abolishing/means testing additional elements like bus passes, WFA etc is much easier. I expect that free bus passes will in the near future be the preserve of the very elderly (80/85+). I don't think it will be completely abolished as it should encourage those that perhaps should no longer drive to use public transport instead.

Also, @jellyfishperiwinkle, the high numbers of people born in those years meant that we were always in very large classes and, by the late seventies, early eighties when my generation were leaving school, there was a recession and very high unemployment figures. This meant that there were far more people applying for every job than the equivalent today. The year l was born, 1964, there were over a million babies born - the highest number since the end of the second world war. It is not our fault that there are so many of us, or that the birth rate has fallen. Apart from anything else, our taxes have supported the older generations, why shouldn't we have some benefits from our taxes, too? There are many people who do not have children at school, for example, but whose taxes support other people's children - should it be only parents who pay taxes to support education? That way, madness lies. In years to come, you will be supported by younger generations.

I do think it should be means tested. I'm lucky enough to still have 3 grandparents, all of whom have cars and are more than well off enough to use them, but they are all too tight to use the petrol and they use the bus instead because it's free. A lot of their friends are the same. Of course i think OAP's that need it should of course have it, but all the ones that I know can afford to pay for the bus if that's the way they want to choose to travel. Whereas I know of younger people on minimum wage, single parents etc. who would benefit much more from free travel than my grandparents and their friends. I suppose the argument could be though that they may reach an age where it's dangerous for them to use their cars so the free bus travel would discourage that.

What do you think the assisted dying bill is all about?

I agree with this. People are people. There will always be hard workers in every generation and those that do the bare minimum. Contributors and takers. It has always been the way and will always be the way.

Questioning people's entitlement to state funded benefits and privileges isn't always ageist or rooted in jealousy. For example, if I think that the two child benefit cap is appropriate this isn't because I'm jealous of all those parents with 3+ children or because I am prejudiced against people of child rearing age. I just don't think it's a great use of public money and funds. A healthy society should allow such discussion without people becoming overly emotional and accussing others of being evil/stupid/selfish and wanting everybody dead. It is incredibly frustrating and just stands in the way of genuine debate.

Lucky you. My grandparents died in their late 60s, early 70s, my dad died at 72. They all worked all their lives, as did my mam, paid taxes, never owned property, or even a car and NEVER lived off benefits. My dad retired at 66. He had 6 years of a pension he paid for all his life and a free bus pass.

Most pensioners are not the parents of wealthy mumsnetters.

Generation X were in large class sizes of 40+ in the 1980s and were going into the workforce in the 1990s recession or our parents were suffering with it. I would certainly count my blessings at receiving free university education and that I could buy a house when the prices were not so horrendous.

I'm certainly not for dismantling the welfare state, but that our demographics mean that the government has some tough decisions ahead.

given that places outside of London often have piss poor bus services, the fact that so much travel goes on in London can't come as a surprise.

What we should be looking at is making public transport excellent everywhere.

I've no issue with pensioners having free bus travel, but it used to be, when the bus companies were publicly owned, that the pensioners simply travelled free after the rush hour, with no costs involved. They just occupied otherwise empty seats. Now the bus companies are paid for each "free" journey, so this now comes at a cost to us all and to the benefit of private companies.

I wish I lived in London. I'd be on free travel by now, and public transport there is excellent. Certainly "excellent" compared to the rest of the country, before anyone takes issue with that.

I don't mean to be obtuse, but nowadays people are not staying alive for just 6 years after retirement, it's now 20 or 30 years. We have to look at how we manage this financially. I guess the bus pass is just a drop in the ocean really.

And then there's my grandparents, 3 still living, all retired longer than they ever worked. Which is why anecdotes aren't helpful on a national level.