Multi Millionaires Complaining Again

[ARealitycheck]

I see our multi-millionaire landowners had another moan today at a labour party conference. Oh the woes of having to pay half the tax over a period 8 years longer than the rest of the public.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2ljdvqegkeo

Not a good look when the spokesperson is the owner of a farm obviously worth £5m who has been in receipt of circa £90k subsidy money annually in recent years. While standing in front of machinery that is built anywhere but the UK.

Farms are different yet I do believe in inheritance tax so my view is that family members who inherit and keep running the farm do not pay a penny but it remains an unpaid and non interest growing debt - if and when farm is sold - payment is due then.

Farmers protected for as long as farm is farmed in the family. Tax paid same as anyone else if someone wishes to stop farming as then and only then they own an asset.
If it's still a working farm it's ridiculous to expect payment that would cripple the farm or force sale.

I don’t know many other industries where the staff work 8 weeks straight with no day off. Many of those days are 6am - 11pm. No knowledge often for 6 months of the year when your days off will be as it’s rain dependent. Nor many people who work a 10 hour shift in the cold, shoveling muck (amongst other things) and go back at 9-10pm at night to shut the animals in. Who work through the night lambing (on top of a day shift) or check in cows calving. Or who do split shifts starting at 4.30am every day. Who work most bank holidays. The pay is not great on top of the housing. Mainly minimum wage.

You sound shortsighted, OP. Typical labour.

Your one of those mumsnetters who live off a lettuce leaf arnt you?

I do wish someone could tell me how to get all these tax breaks. I pay income tax, national insurance, VAT, road tax, council tax, environmental tax on my utilities - the same as everyone else.

I am all in favour of the Labour Party but I find it so strange that they have chosen to go after farmers.

What I struggle with is there’s family businesses who could benefit from the initial tax break. Butchers, bakers, fish mongers,. All part of the community handed down over generations, keeping food on people’s tables, struggling in this climate wanting to hand it on to their kids.

im not sure how they differ

Yes and a lot of these live on their premises too.
Farmers are a cog in the wheel of food production.

Prices of land really need to come down - it's ridiculous at the moment. Farms will be worth less once this happens.

Also because of Brexit, EU farmers can produce the same food cheaper because they are paid subsidies...
let's hope this government see sense and start moves towards the EU again.

Till they tax rollover land prices won’t come down. There is still a 20% discount on IHT for the big boys too.

Inheritance tax has changed for all businesses so someone dying whilst they owned a factory would now be in the same position as a farmer and have the value of the factory, machinery etc. included as part of their estate and potentially have IHT due, it’s just that farming and the changes to apr seem to have been picked up by the mainstream media and there’s been protests etc whereas changes to bpr haven’t got a mention outside the specialist media and potentially effects more businesses

I wish they’d shout about this more. It must be decimating family business. I do thing farmers are disproportionately affected due to the value of land but also the cultural aspect of farmers not retiring and handing things over. The latter is something that needs to change in the industry.

“To all claiming no farmers no food, The land doesn't disappear just belong it belongs somebody else instead of Farmer Giles who's family had it since 1899.”

Except it does disappear from farming.
Land round here (very rural, lots of farms) that comes up for sale never goes to farmers. They are generally outbid by locals wanting paddocks for their horses, which drives up the value of land and keeps many farmers from expanding. For example a 1 acre field on paper may be worth around £10k but the bidding wars from wealthy locals drive it up to £40k +.

Farms that come up for sale because a farming generation ends, and there’s no one to run the farm, do not sell to farmers, not the house or the land. They end up in the hands of rich city folk who may or may not live there, some use their new property as a weekend retreat, with once productive livestock-filled pastures neatly mown to look like a city park, and a few ponies dotted around.

@morph
Yes I've not seen anything much at all about the effect of BPR and certainly no protests.
The protests have been adopted and pushed by the ultra right wing media and Farage who shows up in his flat cap and yellow trousers whenever he gets the chance.
It's a gift to them really!

The government should have perhaps done this a couple of years in once they had a feel of things.

So it's happening anyway before IHT even kicks in? Loads of farms round here went up for sale when the loss in subsidies was announced as without it a lot just can't make a profit.

I generally find farmers havent a clue what it is to be poor, working hard for a living and not own a single cent never mind hundreds of acres of land. Look at that disgraceful attack on the nhs from mumda.

Our whole economy is collapsing. Congratulations neoliberalism and greed.

Round here most farmers are hanging on, but when a farm stops production (old farmer can no longer carry on, has no one to take over sort of scenario) the farm is sold, but typically farmers looking to increase their farms can’t afford the inflated prices paid by wealthy incomers.

It’s happening, but the IHT will hit more harshly. I’m not even sure if they’ll be able to arrange gifting farms down to the next generation, as it’s my understanding that once gifted the giftee can’t live on the property. I’m not sure how correct that is, but hopefully there’s a way to sort it.

I know IHT is changing for other businesses as well, but farming is the one industry where the family home is generally 100% tied to the business, which makes it more tricky to manage.

Funny how those who live and work in farming communities often have different opinions.

I work a minimum wage job, I work hard, but having worked on farms I know that my current working hard is nothing on a farmer’s day!
Too many people begrudge anyone having any reward for hard work, and for farms these rewards can be few and far between.
People begrudge them having 4x4 cars, but have you tried pulling a trailer full of sheep or cows with a corsa? Tried driving down a field in a Skoda?
They’re begrudged for having expensive equipment (also touted as evidence of vast wealth), but they literally can’t do the job without it, and the majority of the time the equipment is bought against the value of the land, so the farmers are in massive debt with no choice to be otherwise.
They are begrudged for having good coats - but they’re out in all weathers, a Primark coat that would suit me fine just doesn’t cut it.
There’s so much spite and misunderstanding. It’s like Labour has turned into a group who want everyone to have nothing. It will backfire on them.

But that's been the case for years, hasn't it? It's not something that's just come about because of a policy that's only just come into being.

As I said upthread, it's not that I agree with this government on this, it's more that people are acting as though this, and this alone, is the cause of the downfall of the farming industry. It isn't. It's one of a myriad of policies, consumer habits, etc, that have been chipping away at the industry for years.

A lot of people outside the farming community are totally unaware of the steady erosion of subsidies under previous governments. A lot of people don't understand how supermarkets have been negatively affecting the industry by paying pennies for produce.

In the last few years, there have been numerous concerns raised about the plight of farmers and the need for them to diversify to survive. The issue I have is that some people are only caring about this now because of this one policy. The last government continued to steadily bleed farmers dry and not a word did we hear about it. Suddenly, the collapse of the industry is imminent and it's all Labour's fault. It's not anything like as simple as that.

Too many people begrudge anyone having any reward for hard work

Absolutely this! Posters on here seem to loathe ambition and anyone earning well, they seem to think the only people who should live a ‘very comfortable life’ are those on benefits. It’s a joke.

It's not even going to help them achieve that.

We do need people earning, not just cut everyone down a la Labour

Do you know anyone who wants to work 15 hour days in the elements? I don’t. Most people complain about a 1 hour commute and say they’re ’absolutely shattered’ after 8 hours in an office (me included!).

While some people move into farming, a lot of the time it’s a family business and a lifestyle that runs in the blood.

The person picking veg in a muddy field in the rain, wont be a farmer, it'll be a migrant worker...

Same with many of the harder manual jobs, farmers employ people, either FT or contractors.
Many jobs are also mechanised, the operator will be in the dry, in a warm AC tractor.
There is now even automated milking! no getting kicked in the head or covered in shit.

We keep being told farmers are older etc so its obvious that many are not doing what you say.

Having done both roles, farm and office, the office one can be mentally very draining, the out door role can be invigorating, even in poor weather.

@ObelixtheGaul

"But that's been the case for years, hasn't it? It's not something that's just come about because of a policy that's only just come into being.

As I said upthread, it's not that I agree with this government on this, it's more that people are acting as though this, and this alone, is the cause of the downfall of the farming industry. It isn't. It's one of a myriad of policies, consumer habits, etc, that have been chipping away at the industry for years.

A lot of people outside the farming community are totally unaware of the steady erosion of subsidies under previous governments. A lot of people don't understand how supermarkets have been negatively affecting the industry by paying pennies for produce.

In the last few years, there have been numerous concerns raised about the plight of farmers and the need for them to diversify to survive. The issue I have is that some people are only caring about this now because of this one policy. The last government continued to steadily bleed farmers dry and not a word did we hear about it. Suddenly, the collapse of the industry is imminent and it's all Labour's fault. It's not anything like as simple as that."

Yes this is the problem I have with the protests that they are blaming the newly installed Labour government for the last 10 years of issues in farming. One farmer actually said to me that it was the straw that broke the camel's back!

Reform have added it to their barrage of ammunition to try and topple Labour.

They should have been protesting supermarkets, land prices and Brexit policies long before this.

You’re wrong. Margins are not that tight and there are always economies that can be made and diversification options to supplement incomes. It’s just about being creative, extremely thrifty and forward thinking. Welcome to the world of business. Which is what farming is in afraid. I’m from farming so I’m not talking out of my arse here. Leaving money untouched for future generations is why some of our farmer friends actually keep farming in the first place. Even under Starmer it’s a way better deal than everyone else gets in this regard. It’s easy to moan though when you live a relatively ‘secluded’ life not seeing real street level poverty and the miserable grind of most peoples ordinary lives. Farmers live in a bit of an echo chamber sometimes I guess. It’s not necessary greed just it’s easy to be naive about the grimness of life off the farm for ordinary working folk too. We’ve just got to suck it up and do our part. It’ll just mean farms evolve in the future to be different shapes and sizes than now. Food will still be produced. Life’s not giving anyone any breaks at the moment. We farmers just have to join the club and be like other business owners. Tighten your belt and make sure your kids work hard at school. Best advice anyone can give in todays world I’m afraid.

If there are any farmers on this thread please can you tell me if your business has been affected by loss of BPS subsidy? What percentage of this was your income? Did you sell land because of it?

Did you apply for any of the Farming Equipment and Technology fund grants (worth 107 million over the last 3 rounds).