To consider moving to a smaller town to own a home and commute for 1.5 hours?

[leftorrightnow]

Please help me decide...we are currently living in the capital of the European country we have relocated to. My native country (after 20 years in UK,, hence why i am on here). Two kids, 10 and 8, girl and boy, They are currently sharing a room and they really need their own space. We are in a two bedroom rented flat in a really nice ares near the centre of the city and near the kid's school, which is a really good and sought-after school. DS (8) is thriving in the school, lots of friends and doing well academically. DD (10) is so so, some friend but also a quite a bit of conflict and her class teacher this year and last has been atrocious, we are hoping she will et another one next year but cannot be sure. Suspect most of it is due to her less easy-going personality, and she may be the same somewhere else, but in this class the dynamic in the girls group is not great, so she may also have a chance at a better set-up in a new school.

DH in unemployed and has been for 1.5 years. He is in an industry which is currently in crisis. He is on unemployment support which is quite high in this country, but after the summer, it will run out. If he hasn't found a job in his industry by then, he will need to do some sort of unskilled labour to make ends meet in our current situation with relatively high rent. I would be grateful if you would be gentle and avoid going into this point and start talking about what a shit and lazy husband he is, I have posted on this situation before on a separate thread, (so as you can see I have been and still am pretty frustrated with the situation and no, divorce would definitely not make my life any better) please just take this as a fact and comment on the overall situation. To be loosing patience with DH unemployment more than a year | Mumsnet

Now, what I am wondering is if we should take the plunge and ove to a smaller provincial town, where my sister lives, it 1 hour outside the capital. I would need to keep my job in the capital so commuting would be around 1.5 hours each way door to door. I would need to leave the house around 7.15 to be on time and likely would not be home until 18.30 most nights. This bit really puts me off. What also puts me off is starting over again, just as we have formed a social network here and friends for the kids and us after relocating from London 6 years ago. What also puts me off is that I love living in this city, it is very liveable and cosmopolitan. The literally only reason I want to move is so that we an own a home as we cannot get a mortgage with my husband's unstable income here, but in that town, we could get a mortgage just based on my salary. The kids could have their own rooms and the pet they have been dreaming of for so long.

I am in so much doubt but I feel our current situation is unbearable, there just isn't enough space and we are wasting all out money on rent, rather than paying off a mortgage. So basically, main reason to move would be better economy and more space and stability. Reasons not to move would be a more boring city and life, having to start over, loosing the good school and a long commute for me.

My comments are nothing to do with moral judgement.

DH and I both commuted an hour and a half each way at times in order to ensure our DC had their own rooms. Fine for same sex to share at that age but different sex not so much.

You have admitted you have had a choice from the beginning you just don’t want to make any sacrifices to your own routine.

How close is your DD to 11? I would do anything within my power to ensure she gets a room of her own asap. Yes I would give up my room if I had to no questions what so ever.

yes he needs to reopen his sole trading company registered in this country to be able to look for roles in the UK, as he does not have a working visa. He had to close down the company to claim unemployment insurance. I am not sure how he could open a company in the UK if he doesn't live there, doesn't have citizenship and not even right to remain status? Not having applied for the settled status before we moved was beyond stupid of us, but it was right when they were changing the scheme so it was unclear what you were meant to do. We are both EU citizens (albeit different countries).

I would be fine w him going to work globally for a while. Better for finances and I think crucially, his mental health and self-worth. This is actually another point for staying in the capital, as if we moved he couldn't go away as he would be stuck with childcare each end of the long days I would be away.

'My comments have nothing to do with moral judgment. DH and I both do what you refuse to do for the sake of our kids. What you are doing is not ok.' isn't that the gist of what you just said. lol.

Don't worry, I take zero offense. I only listen to posters who are offering genuine advice. I will never understand people who come on posts just to pass judgment and offer advice which has no empathy and doesn't take the circumstances into consideration but simply makes sweeping statements based on their own life. Must have a boring life (maybe it's due to living in the suburbs ; ) sorry, couldn't resist).

Could you change to a job nearer to the new town in time or is working at home a couple of days a week an option ? Might be worth having a chat with manager about WFH options

@leftorrightnow You’re not funny. You show zero empathy to your DC. Everything is about your needs. Me, me, me that is how you present yourself.

I simply reflected the facts you gave us and many posters have said commuting and giving up their bedroom is what they would do. You are just unwilling to do it.

I’ve lived all over the world. My DC have been to different schools in different countries and learnt different languages. Absolutely nothing wrong with the suburbs in the UK either.

You are the judgemental one 😂 Don’t worry I don’t care if you do or do not take offence.

A 10 nearly 11 year old girl sharing a bedroom with her brother just because her mother looks down on the suburbs even though that is all they can afford is the sad thing about this situation not your fake caring.

There are plenty of children who grow up sharing a room - it is the norm in lots of places and was the norm everywhere until the last generation or so. Are the kids unhappy sharing? Is there a specific issue with it? My son has a friend who shares with his sister and always will as it's a 2 bedroom flat. They're fine.

I'd be concerned about moving the children to a school in another language on top of everything else. It sounds like there's a lot going on at your house so maybe keeping the things that are going well might be something to think about.

This. I would do this option in the short term. I know many families who have to do this long term out of necessity. It's not ideal but at least you don't have to uproot your children again.

This might give you some breathing space to save some money. You could then save for a btl elsewhere, somewhere cheaper, and use the extra money to save for a deposit where you are currently living.

It's sounds like a tough decision both staying and moving.

Sorry Op just saw your previous post to know that my above suggestion is not an option re: bedrooms.

I think it sounds an it like you’re sensitive about living in the suburbs that’s why I made the joke. I grew up in a tiny village and loved it. As I’ve said many times the there are several reasons not to move, and the suburbs not being cool enough isn’t one of them.

maybe you haven’t suffered from
insomnia and been addicted to sleeping pills for a year and had three severe breakdowns. Lucky you. If you had, you’d likely understand that sleeping in a room that doesn’t feel peaceful isn’t a concession you’re willing to make. Having a mum who’s a nervous wreck isn’t good for kids either.

yes I don’t love a Iong commute, who does?

its great for you that you are happy with your life and setup. It sounds like it works for you. you also said you and DH commute an hour and a half “at times”. not Monday-Friday every day every month, right? With evening engagements about once a week, making the arrival time at home even later.

I don’t know how you manage childcare if your children are similar age with mine? If you and DH are both home past 6pm every day? Great that you do, in any case. But it wouldn’t work in our situation for reasons I’ve been clear about.

it also doesn’t sound like your husband’s job prospects are harmed by you living where you do? Again, good for you!

It seems to me you feel judged by me not wanting to live the way you do, despite the fact that by closer inspection, you do not
live the way I would be living at all. While there are some similarities, it appears that key factors in our situations are vastly different. There is no reason for you to compare yourself to me or feel judged.

@leftorrightnow Honestly, the only point I made was you are unwilling to do anything at all because you have an excuse for not doing so.

I don’t need to justify my life to you. You asked for opinions and this is what I have given.

If you put as much effort into trying to improve your DD’s sleeping arrangements as you have in attacking me on this thread maybe your DD will have her own room before she is a teenager.

You even say she needs a room of her own.

Yes my children went to before and after school clubs, holiday clubs and childminders. I’ve had mental health issues and due to an autoimmune disease I also have insomnia. DH and I have slept in a lounge when we needed to.

You even insult your own sister’s living arrangements because you need to humiliate me for living in the suburbs.

Do you have any self awareness at all?

@Tumbleweed44 i asked for people to help me decide. Lots of posters have offered very helpful, thoughtful and empathetic advice. That’s what I was after. Not some strangers “opinion”.

hmm…so do you think I put effort into attacking you or not? If she won’t have a room before she’s a teenager guess means I’m not putting in effort enough? Unclear.

greta for you you had after school care until 6.30pm - doesn’t exist here. Can’t afford a nanny/extra childminder but nice for you that you could.

Im sorry to hear you’ve suffered from insomnia. I’m a b it surprised that if you have, you don’t understand the importance of peaceful sleep to mental health? Sounds like you think mums should sacrifice mental health for kids to have their own bedroom? See, I think that would be a wrong assessment for the whole family. But each to their own.

How have I insulted my sister’s living arrangements? Are we on the same thread?

think you must have misread something l. You do understand the whole point of this thread was finding a way for the kids to have their own bedrooms? But somehow you think I made this thread because I don’t care about my kids?

your life sounds great for you! Congratulations for creating a setup that works for you.

@leftorrightnow I see nobody can possibly have suffered with insomnia as bad as yours! I chose to put my children’s needs first. BTW we also worked 12 to 13 hour shifts in healthcare so there was that too. We had no choice but to use childcare.

Nothing more to say to you as you turn everything to be about how much harder you have it than everyone else.

Bet your sister is happy in the suburbs or commutable town, shame you feel the need to put anywhere other than a city location down.

I am leaving this thread.

You have zero ability to understand why myself and others would make the sacrifices I suggested for their children to have their own bedrooms. Especially as your DD is nearly 11 and in your own words needs her own bedroom.

My sister is happy now, yes. She lives in a lovely large house on the outskirts of town near a forest. She works locally, as does her DH. However, it was not always so simple for her, she used to live in the capital and moved to the other town with her first husband. She got a local job as she's in an industry where it is easy to find local work pretty much everywhere. Her ex-husband however had to keep his job in the capital, as he is in an extremely narrow field, think something akin to nuclear scientist. There was no way he would ever get a local job. Within two years they were divorced. At the time, her ex said a big part of the reason was the move. My sister then met a local guy with a local job and remarried.

When I visit her, I am very happy for her for her lovely home and lifestyle now and tell her so. When she visits me, she has no problem reminiscing over here big city life. We do not compare ourselves to each other and feel judged by our different lifestyles or choices. We know our lives and situations are vastly different.

On insomnia, I am pretty sure lots of people have had worse cases than mine. I am not comparing myself to others, simply sharing with you how it has affected my life, and pointing out that it seems to not have affected your life to quite the same extent, given that you would be willing to sleep in the lounge on a sofa bed. But maybe you would be willing to do that for the sake of your kids, even if this would severely impact your mental health? If so, I am not sure I applaud that approach. Parents with mental health issues are one of the most damaging things for children, much worse than sharing a room with a sibling. Some of us have more robust mental health than others. If your mental health is a little on the fragile side, as mine is, ignoring that is not wise and not to the benefit of your children.

If you worked 12-13 hours shifts in healthcare that must have been hard, well done for managing. However, I can only assume this would mean you were not having a regular schedule with 12-13 hours shifts five days a week, butt more of a changeable schedule, with some days where you would be home late and leave early, and other days not. This is quite different to a daily slog of 7.15 - 18.30. Again, I know lots of people do that and have no choice and we may have to do that too! But you insistence on looking at our situations as if they ae identical and then taking offense as if I have insulted your life choices makes no sense, when our lives appear to be very different. It also doesn't sound as if your DH is a foreigner, who may have challenges integrating in a smaller place.

Yes they are like cat and dog to be honest! SO MUCH fighting. They really do need separate rooms. Good to hear thought that others share too and expect to continue doing so, without anyone calling child services ; )

Yes, I am concerned about moving kids to another school. Yesterday I asked DS sort of casually how he would feel about moving and he firmly said no, he said he would not want to leave the school and his friends. For DD, she said she was not sure. But I think that her pre-teen drama self will be the same anywhere, and in fact it may be harder to work dramas out in a class where she doesn't have long-term relationships with the other girls, and where we do not know the other parents. Just yesterday another mum messaged me about a conflict between DD and her daughter, and because we are on good terms and know each other well for years, we were able to work it out and come up with some solutions to help the girls (hopefully) solve their conflict. If this situation had occurred with a girl whose parents didn't know us at all, I am not sure things would have gone as smoothly.

Overall, I am still in doubt though, but think I am leaning towards taking a larger flat in a less central area for the same rent, and keeping the kids school and everything else as it is for now, waiting to see where things land with DH.

If we move to this other town, we would in a way have our backs against the wall and have to make it work out there. Whereas if we go for a more temporary solution in the city, we leave more options open. Which is always wise.

As others on here have suggested could you divide the larger bedroom into two smaller rooms? There are some really good ideas on You Tube where people have done this.

@leftorrightnow I think it's wise to keep things as flexible as possible with as many opportunities for you and your husband as possible. As you know exactly what your budget is without him working, I'd make sure it was manageable and do the best you can while changing as few things that are working as possible.

My daughter is 12 and both hates her school 'and' wouldn't want to change it - but, she'd only get a vote in a family decision, not a casting vote! I will say that my kids are better off for having their own spaces now (they shared in our old house) but it's not a necessity or anything. My friends who have their kids sharing have two loft beds kind of back to back so they have their own wee dens underneath their beds. My father grew up in NYC and everyone shared rooms with everyone as most of the flats were tiny - he shared with his parents for years until they got a 2 bedroom.

Not RTFT. I know you don't want this thread to be about your DH but if he was in a certain part of the film industry, could he use that talent/knowledge to video houses for sale and rent? Lots of estate agents in the UK now include a video and I know someone who transferred their skills to this. Ultimately it is not what DH wants but may allow you to have a bit more flexibility. Sorry I always want to help and many times it's just not feasible and I'm clutching at straws

yes we considered this and may still go that way if we can’t find another decent flat w an extra room for the same price. I think we could also do w a bit of a scene change.

Thanks for the idea and yes, he has already investigated that option, but had no luck with it. Him not being native to this country is a bit of a hinderance I guess, with a currently saturated market, most people prefer a local over a foreigner (sadly especially in this country) but thanks for reminding me I’ll remember next time
i meet an estate agent. He is currently trying to diversify into AI

Thanks for making me feel better!

I hope your DH is successful in diversifying into AI, it seems the place to be.

I would probably go with this option rather than move with a huge commute. If you moved and bought a house you would be gone out of the house most of the time and your husband could sit back and decide not to bother with looking for a job as you have been given a mortgage based on your income so he might decide the pressure is off him. It would be a killer to do that commute everyday too OP. If you do decide to move away, make sure you factor your commuting costs into your budget. I am sorry you are in this situation, it sounds really tough.

Yes if only all his hours and months spent learning programmed would start to pay off!

This is how I’m starting to feel, yes. I’m thinking to instead explore what I can borrow based on only my income and then see if we can buy a flat to rent out, and use that income to supplement our rent.

That might be very stressful though, because you would still be in rented accommodation but would be responsible for the maintenance on the other property, you might not get decent tenants, and if you rely on that income to help pay your rent what happens if they default on their rent payments.