To consider moving to a smaller town to own a home and commute for 1.5 hours?

[leftorrightnow]

Please help me decide...we are currently living in the capital of the European country we have relocated to. My native country (after 20 years in UK,, hence why i am on here). Two kids, 10 and 8, girl and boy, They are currently sharing a room and they really need their own space. We are in a two bedroom rented flat in a really nice ares near the centre of the city and near the kid's school, which is a really good and sought-after school. DS (8) is thriving in the school, lots of friends and doing well academically. DD (10) is so so, some friend but also a quite a bit of conflict and her class teacher this year and last has been atrocious, we are hoping she will et another one next year but cannot be sure. Suspect most of it is due to her less easy-going personality, and she may be the same somewhere else, but in this class the dynamic in the girls group is not great, so she may also have a chance at a better set-up in a new school.

DH in unemployed and has been for 1.5 years. He is in an industry which is currently in crisis. He is on unemployment support which is quite high in this country, but after the summer, it will run out. If he hasn't found a job in his industry by then, he will need to do some sort of unskilled labour to make ends meet in our current situation with relatively high rent. I would be grateful if you would be gentle and avoid going into this point and start talking about what a shit and lazy husband he is, I have posted on this situation before on a separate thread, (so as you can see I have been and still am pretty frustrated with the situation and no, divorce would definitely not make my life any better) please just take this as a fact and comment on the overall situation. To be loosing patience with DH unemployment more than a year | Mumsnet

Now, what I am wondering is if we should take the plunge and ove to a smaller provincial town, where my sister lives, it 1 hour outside the capital. I would need to keep my job in the capital so commuting would be around 1.5 hours each way door to door. I would need to leave the house around 7.15 to be on time and likely would not be home until 18.30 most nights. This bit really puts me off. What also puts me off is starting over again, just as we have formed a social network here and friends for the kids and us after relocating from London 6 years ago. What also puts me off is that I love living in this city, it is very liveable and cosmopolitan. The literally only reason I want to move is so that we an own a home as we cannot get a mortgage with my husband's unstable income here, but in that town, we could get a mortgage just based on my salary. The kids could have their own rooms and the pet they have been dreaming of for so long.

I am in so much doubt but I feel our current situation is unbearable, there just isn't enough space and we are wasting all out money on rent, rather than paying off a mortgage. So basically, main reason to move would be better economy and more space and stability. Reasons not to move would be a more boring city and life, having to start over, loosing the good school and a long commute for me.

I disagree. Most people have compromised in exactly the way the OP is having to. You can't really think that most people are thrilled to move from inner London to Luton and the likes. They do it to afford a suitable family home and they suck up the commute and lifestyle compromises that come with it. Course many will see the benefits and find happiness wherever they've made their home - again, just as the OP hopefully will. But it's not the case that others are chuffed to bits to live in commuterland and it's some unusual hardship for the OP. It's a very typical scenario for the non-rich in capital cities and it's more unusual that she's managed to do the central living and schools and only having to consider this compromise now due to the kids' ages/sex and the DH's job issues.

You only have to look at the zillion 'agh where to move out of London but stay working there' threads to see it's a constant compromise for families rather than a 'lots of people are really happy' situation. But it generally works out and becomes home, so I think the OP can hopeful in her situation, esp as it sounds like the commute could be as short as an hour, her DH can be home for the kids at least during the initial period of adjustment, and the DD was looking to move schools any way even though it wasn't mandatory. It's always a daunting change, but I think it has a lot in its favour, OP. The inbetweeny rental and commute to the same school feels more unsettling and insecure. I think you have to get your head around it and take the leap.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't know anyone who hasn't been glad to leave the capital once they have a family and need more space and a more affordable home. It can be puzzling where to go if there isn't anywhere obvious, but London has become way too much of an unhappy slog for everyone I know who has moved out. Even if people have been apprehensive, I certainly don't know anyone not chuffed and excited about their new home and getting to know their new area.

That's a different situation. Sounds like you're talking about people who've moved to a completely different area to live AND work, or else they'd still be doing the London slog. I'm talking about people like OP who move further out to a new area but still work in the city.

No, I'm talking about the people that still commute in. By London slog I mean having no space with kids, not being able to afford a garden and another bedroom etc, or not being able to afford a mortgage.

Will you be able to afford a mortgage and the commute cost OP?
As well as the bills ?
When your DH unemployment benefit ends will he then get a job , any job to help the family financially? If so then perhaps you could afford to buy in the city then ?

This is tricky situation and very much depends on which country in Europe you live in.
Would you be able to buy a house, but rent it out for the next 5 to 10 years? That would cover the house bit.
Are there any up and coming areas closer to where you currently live, which could give you the space you require without the massive commute?
Are you able to say what industry your husband works in? Would he be able to leverage connections/network? Would he be able to work remotely?
I am assuming that he has his CV with recruiters etc. My industry went very quiet around Christmas (also freelance) but is beginning to pick up again now. I was having time off anyway, so not too concerned and won't start looking seriously again until the end of March.

You're basically taking on even more strain because of your husband. A 3 hour commute sounds knackering and unsustainable. If you're further away from the city would your husbands prospects decrease further, what would happen with childcare if he got a job?

I know you don't want this to become a DH work thread- but you do need to consider how this move may impact his job search

I do a similar commute but 2-3 days a week. Prior to the pandemic it was 4 and my husband did 5.
What made it bearable is wrap around childcare so when we walked through the door at 7-7.30pm the kids were fed, washed, homework done and ready for bed. We had to do bed time stories and make ourselves some food. Maybe throw on a load of laundry.

It's become tricker now they are early teens as they are slightly too young to be left from 4.30-7pm [or longer if the trains are kaput] if we are both in London on long days

If you think your husband is going to really step up and be a SAHD then this could be a sensible course of action. A 40 mins commute inwards is more than doable and in the evenings, it can help to manage expectations at home and at work that you have flexibility on some days to work late/client events etc.

Several questions though.
Does he need to be close to the city if the freelance media market picks up or can he work from a new location as a freelancer without issue? Both of you commuting this distance will be challenging.

Is he likely to be welcomed in a new location by less cosmopolitan locals as a long term SAHD or become even more isolated and depressed, leaving most of the household tasks until you walk in the door?
How realistic is it for your daughter to move to a French speaking school now and keep up with her peers if her written French is poor? When are her first state exams? Can you afford additional support?
Do you think your marriage is more at risk? What would your husband do in the event of a divorce? Would you be more or less at risk of needing familial support and as the primary earner where would it leave you if you had to pay his living costs and find accommodation for yourself?
Does a move to suburbia open up positive change for you as a family? Your comment about activities resonated with me. When we lived in central London our lives were about getting out of the small house every weekend. We now have a large garden, my husband does a lot of outdoor exercise rather than a gym [I have good intentions mostly], and there is space for people to just be without getting under each others feet

The half way house in moving to a worse district [depends on just how much worse I suppose] allows your children to stay in their schools and you all to have more space.
Would you confidently allow your children to commute the 20-30 mins by metro on a solo basis? Is this common in Paris? It is in London but schooling is as you know quite different so kids won't necessarily go to their nearest secondary school.
It also presents [possibly] more opportunity for your husband to find a new job in a new industry if you are more central?

Either way, this needs to be a joint decision.
Your husband is out of work a long time and by the sound of it depressed and humiliated. He's not someone who has actively chosen to be a SAHD and will take a step back and support your career to the extent that you can almost be a 1950's Dad and focus solely on your job and ensure a stable income and a mortgage is paid.
For you - if you relocate out to suburbia and buy a house, you are committing long term to this model and accepting it is all on you financially.

Oh okay, well your friends are lucky then. Ime the commuter towns and trains are not full of people who are chuffed and excited. There's pro's and cons like always but on balance we adjust to what we can afford and make the best of it.

thanks for all your comments. Re DH's situation, rest assured he is doing everything he absolutely can and yes everything you suggest and a thousand times over. Its a very specific situation, feel free to check out my other thread on this if interested. He is in the film industry which is being decimated at the moment. He used to do a lot of remote work for London companies but now cant due to bloody Brexit and tightened rules. Working remotely of course, he has plenty but now even that is drying up. He needs to transition to another industry which he is trying to do. Yes I am concerned that a move may affect his job prospects negative.y.

If he would get a job outside his industry when benefits run out that would have to be unskilled and even that may be tricky for him as he doesn't speak the language. So cant be certain he would be bringing in much income any time soon. Need a situation where we can survive on my income and a small contribution from him.

we could go for a place not as far away, but then we dont ahve family there and know nobody. that's why I am more attracted to the other town as I know it and my family is there. but maybe we should consider again an alternative.

I have thought about taking another rental just a little further out and in a les attractive area but still in the city-ish, and then getting a mortgage for buy to let with what we have for eg a one bedroom flat in an up and coming area and try to have an investment that way.

@TreadSoftlyOnMyDreams thanks for your thoughtful response.

Answers below.

Does he need to be close to the city if the freelance media market picks up or can he work from a new location as a freelancer without issue? Both of you commuting this distance will be challenging. - likelihood is his jobs would be mainly remote so location would not matter, but there is a lot of uncertainty.

Is he likely to be welcomed in a new location by less cosmopolitan locals as a long term SAHD or become even more isolated and depressed, leaving most of the household tasks until you walk in the door? - Yes this is what I fear. No, he would not be that welcomed.

How realistic is it for your daughter to move to a French speaking school now and keep up with her peers if her written French is poor? When are her first state exams? Can you afford additional support? - We are not in France, can see how 'Europe' invokes that a a first reference, we are in a northern European country (being a bit evasive not to out myself totally as out situation is ridiculously specific) she hasn't had any exams, in this country you do not have them until 9th grade. I think she could pick up the written local language perfectly in a year. But would be tricky transition.

Do you think your marriage is more at risk? What would your husband do in the event of a divorce? Would you be more or less at risk of needing familial support and as the primary earner where would it leave you if you had to pay his living costs and find accommodation for yourself? - Yes I fear it would put our marriage more at risk. DH would be even more stuck in the event of divorce there, as he would then be really tied to that city to be near the kids. If I would have to pay is living costs and find another place for myself that would be...very tricky. But would probably actually be easier in that town as everything is cheaper!

Does a move to suburbia open up positive change for you as a family? Your comment about activities resonated with me. When we lived in central London our lives were about getting out of the small house every weekend. We now have a large garden, my husband does a lot of outdoor exercise rather than a gym [I have good intentions mostly], and there is space for people to just be without getting under each others feet. - Yes, I think this would be the positive change we need, having more space and just 'being' without being in each other's way.

Would you confidently allow your children to commute the 20-30 mins by metro on a solo basis? Is this common in Paris? It is in London but schooling is as you know quite different so kids won't necessarily go to their nearest secondary school. -Yes this would be no problem here.

It also presents [possibly] more opportunity for your husband to find a new job in a new industry if you are more central? -Yes it probably would

Your husband is out of work a long time and by the sound of it depressed and humiliated. He's not someone who has actively chosen to be a SAHD and will take a step back and support your career to the extent that you can almost be a 1950's Dad and focus solely on your job and ensure a stable income and a mortgage is paid. - I think he would step up and be a good SAHD. He practically is already. But I don't think it would be good for our marriage - just as the 50ies weren't great for SAHM's.

For you - if you relocate out to suburbia and buy a house, you are committing long term to this model and accepting it is all on you financially.

• yes and this is what makes me weary of that option too. It is like I am removing the pressure for him to find work almost completely. And leave it all on me. Combined with the commute, I can see myself becoming resentful, unless I pivot and become super career ambitious, but that is not the life I ever wanted. I want a 50/50 partnership, in terms of finances and childcare/household. I also want time with the kids!

unlikely we would be able to afford something decent in the city anytime soon.

Yes in a way I feel that too. I fear I will become resentful and a nice house and garden will not make up for the knackering commute and tying myself to having to sustain a certain level of income, with him being able to go 'oh well now we live here there isn't much I can do'

I’d personally probably go for the one hour away in suburbia option in your shoes I think. Especially if that means you’re then half an hour from family and this other place, which makes it an easier future move if you decided you do want to move there after all down the line, and close enough to pop over and see family without it being a massive deal on the weekend. A 3 hour commute a day is going to get old quickly. A 2 hour commute isn’t great but I think it’s doable and I would do it to get on the property ladder and allow my kids a bedroom each.

You do have a choice and have from the beginning. You just don’t want to face what should have happened years before the girl turned 10!

Blaming your DH’s redundancy is just another excuse.

Could an option be that you let your two children have the bedrooms and you and your husband have a sofa bed in the lounge until your husband finds work, and then reconsider your situation then?

I think your DC are ok to share for another year or so whilst you see what your DH’s employment situation looks like. My kids shared until that age and a bit older. In the end I moved my bedroom to a downstairs room so they had a room each. Can you do that for a short time? A sofa bed or one of those beds that you attach to the wall?

If you do more further out and both you and DH working in the city do you have family who can care for the kids, or can you get a childminder until 7pm if trains are late? I don’t find the commute too awful as I live in Surrey and we have staff in my team who commute from the south coast into London. But we work from home 40-60% of the week which makes a difference. Its a lot every single day. But if your DH will have cooked dinner, sorted out kids homework etc, then just coming home and not having to cook makes a big difference. But of course that might change when your DH gets a job.

You can't support your children without being OK yourself, and I don't think you would be OK having such a long working day including the commute. Is there maybe a slightly larger flat, perhaps in less good condition, in a nearby but less expensive area that you could rent? If not, could you swap bedrooms with your DC and let them have the bigger bedroom divided up with book cases or screens? Losing your network would be a huge thing in your position.
If the only benefit to the family in moving to the suburbs is the DC having their own rooms, and there are other serious downsides, I wouldn't do it.

Eh what? if DH hadn't been unemployed we would have been able to afford a bigger place in the city. Also, please stop this weird 'before your girl turned 10 thing', yes, kids having each their room is preferable but the majority of kids in this world share a room at that age, some until they move out of their homes, please get out of your first world moral panic bubble

well there would be a financial benefit to getting on the property ladder too. But all your comments have really helped me realise that the move would bring as many problems as it would solve, crucially, it would place a lot of pressure on me, and actually, I am already stressed out as it is! Perhaps going for a bigger flat a bit further out in a less fancy area, but still in commuting distance to the kids school, is a good half-way house temporary solution, until we see where DH's job situation lands.

thanks for saying they can share without me being reported for child abuse, lol.
I think they really DO need each their room as DD is getting very pre-teenish and moody and needs her privacy, and DS is basically like a stereotype of an 8 year old boy, insanely into football (think kicking a ball around in the room and needing to be told not to do so more times than my sanity can take), perpetually active and quite cheeky, so they are really not a good match right now and need their space, think it also depends on the kids personalities and genders. But of course it is not the end of the world. Need to keep some perspective.

My parents are very elderly and not in the best health, can't count on them regularly looking after the kids and this will only get worse. My sister has four kids and a very buys job, so she has 0 extra bandwidth.

My job isn't allowing remote work on a regular basis, so that would not be an option and they would not allow the time on the train to count. So would have to be the full hours in the office all week all year around.

yes my mum keeps saying that too. I just know it would make me so miserable. I know it sounds stupid, I just cant bear the thought. Maybe it is because I am a terrible sleeper, suffered w insomnia for years (maybe this is also what makes me more weary than usual of the commute, knowing I often dont get a good nights sleep) so the bedroom being a sanctuary (well right now DH's computer is in there so isn't exactly but still better than the lounge!) is really important to me

Is it Denmark?

If you relocate to be near your family, could your husband conceivably work within the UK for suitable roles to try and restart his career? If he has a sole trading company that pays it's taxes in the UK and he is usually employed on a free lance basis then given you are managing without his income now, could you with enough family support send him off globally in search of roles until he has built a more stable income stream again?

Far from ideal from a family perspective but needs must sometimes.

There's also the Irish market which operates in English but is within the EU but considerably smaller opportunities than the UK industry I imagine.

I've just seen your updates. I'd look for a more local move in that case. Moving "home" is probably going to create more problems