Kids noise vs neighbours: AIBU to think that there is so much you can do when you have young children?

[karpouzi]

We have three kids, all under the age of four, and live in a period maisonette spread over the first and loft floor. Currently, our entire family sleeps in the loft. The eldest two share a bedroom, while the baby is still in our room. On the first floor, we have the kitchen and living area, as well as a double room, which is currently set up as a playroom. We’ve always had a strict rule that our kids are not allowed on the first floor before 8 a.m., unless they’re having breakfast in the kitchen.
However, our downstairs neighbor has been repeatedly complaining about the noise, especially on weekends, saying that it’s disturbing her sleep. She sends us long messages almost every week. We’ve explained that we have a double rug in the playroom, and that the kids are not allowed in that room before 8 a.m., even though they wake up around 6:30 a.m. We also arrange swimming lessons to be at 9am in the weekend so the kids are out of the house. Unfortunately, this is all we can do to minimize the noise. Now, we face a new challenge: the baby will soon need his own room. Our plan is to move him into the boys' room in the loft, which is fairly small. We also plan to get new beds for the eldest two and convert the playroom into a bedroom where the boys will also have space for their toys. The boys typically wake up between 6:30 and 7 a.m., and with this new setup, they will need to stay in their bedroom in the mornings. I’m really concerned that the complaints from our neighbor will escalate. What do other people do in situations like this? I feel I m getting fed and I will start ignoring her messages.

Note: When we renovated our kitchen we did add floor noise insulation but we don’t have the money to do any further renovations at this stage.

Can you really not afford to carpet just the one room? I would do everything I could to put carpet down and keep the rugs. At that stage I would write her a letter telling her what you have done and pointing out that you have done everything a reasonable person could do to stop her being disturbed but you are not responsible for the fact that every room beneath you is now a bedroom and you will absolutely not entertain any more complaints. You are entitled to enjoy your home, children make noise, and if she continues to complain you will view it as harassment. I know falling out with your neighbours is not what you want (I worked for Citizens Advice for years and neighbour disputes were the pits), but it sounds like nothing you do short of moving will make this woman happy so you need to stop this now.

My friend had similar neighbours who had 3 kids and lived in the flat above, I stayed at her house one night and couldn’t believe how noisy it was.

They had wooden floors and it sounded like the ceiling was coming down when the kids were running around, toys being dropped on the floor made the whole room shake and it was impossible to relax at all.

My friend begged them to put carpet down and tried for months to reason with them after they moved in, they said it was normal family noise and just brushed the complaints off.

My friend had a literal breakdown from the constant noise and being on edge for it to start again on the rare times it went quiet, she moved in with her parents and her brother moved into her house.

My friends brother was also annoyed by the noise but wasn’t as considerate as his sister and decided if the neighbours weren’t going to do anything to reduce noise and adjust their lifestyle then neither was he. He got a drum kit, threw balls at the ceiling for hours, had friends round, played loud music, turned his tv up etc. He made sure most of the noise was between 7am and 11pm but concentrated it around the kids bedtime, he knew that complaints made about noise being made that early in the evening wouldn’t be taken that seriously.

In the end the family upstairs moved but if they had been willing to put down carpet or tried harder to reduce the noise then it wouldn’t have escalated like that. My friend just wanted to be able to enjoy some peace at home, she couldn’t even watch tv because the noise upstairs drowned it out and she got ear infections from constantly wearing earplugs.

I have also lived in flats below noisy neighbours and it really affects your mental health, I was lucky I was renting and the neighbours were evicted, it was also part of the tenancy that the flats had to be carpeted to reduce noise.

I think OP needs to consider that if she doesn’t put more of an effort in to reduce the noise and moves her kids to the lower floor that her neighbours might retaliate with noise, either that or they might have enough of it and move and the next people to move in might also do the same.

Your friend's brother is a dick! Kids running in their house and accidently dropping toys vs a grown ass adult actively throwing a ball on the ceiling for hours (who the fuck does that) and ruining bedtime (how fucking cruel is that?!?!?!??!?). I hope that when he has kids, someone gives him the taste of his own medicine because the way he dealt with that is horrendous and cruel.

So, I think he was a bit of a dick. But so were the upstairs neighbours. My sister lives in a flat and I am always shocked at how noisy it is. I live in a house but am always shushing and reminding my son to be quiet. I have single, older neighbours on either side and they have a right to quiet enjoyment of their homes.

Maybe the OP's neighbour should meet like-for-like and start disrupting bedtime.

Do you have kids? If so, can you put yourself into the OP's shoes or your sister's neighbours' shoes. Carpet costs hundreds and you just can't afford it. What do you do? Do you strap yor kids to highchair for hours on end so they don't make a noise?
Seriously! As OP said, the noise really happens on the weekend after 8am and nit all day. The rest of the week, they're out in nursery the entire day. Wearing esr plugs a couple of nights a week wouldn't give you an ear infection, lots of ppl wear them every night/day (how do you think night shift workers do). If she got infection, it's because she didn't keep them clean 🙄🙄🙄

You've mentioned going away om holiday. You need to reprioritise your spending to focus on getting thick, sound absorbing underlays and carpets down in your lower floor rooms, as soon as you are possibly able. Floorboads and a rug won't cut it!

Unfortunately this applies even if its not your preferred decorative style. Anything dropped or walked over those floorboards will sound like gunshots in the flat below.

Ps you might own a share of the freehold, but there's likely still a lease or commonhold applicable within the building, and I'd be very surprised if it doesn't require carpeted floors.

Nope - his reaction sounds completely reasonable to me. They could have put down carpet chose not to. So he gave them a taste of their own medicine.

If they can afford to go away on holiday they can afford carpet.

You’re doing plenty to mitigate so i’d just tell her sorry you can’t do anymore as you need to live your life and yes, children make noise. If you buy a flat then you have to accept that sometimes there will be noise. The fact is the kids are out of the house all week. Yes she might want a lie in on the weekends but you can’t keep your kids upstairs until 10-11am. She needs to invest in some sound proofed headphones or white noise or something similar. I wouldn’t keep engaged with her if she keeps complaining, just repeat what you’re doing to help mitigate the noise. Which is plenty in my opinion.

Or the neighbour should realise that she lives in a shared space and if she wants complete silence she could move to an isolated detached property

You can't punish kids for being kids

You need to stop the stamping about!

Theres probably a reason why you can’t, as its an obvious solution, but I would 100% move - I would hate to have to restrict my kids’ childlike activities (eg walking around at 6 am). My older 2 are 7 & 10 and still get up at 6am like clockwork, I’m not gonna restrict that for a decade.

(I’ve lived below loud people in an old house before and it was fucking infuriating so I do understand the neighbour!)

''punish' children for making normal noise? absolutely ridiculous.

Its normal to make noise after 8am and if she doesn't like it she should move to a different type of property.

And your neighbour is probably working Monday to Friday too! You need to look at your flooring as it sounds like you only have rugs. Interesting you opted to put noise insulation in your kitchen and not in a room where your children play, that should have been the room that had it. You need to improve your relationship with your neighbour as if you do eventually move and you are in dispute with them you have to to declare it now days. If you don't disclose a dispute and the buyer later finds out, they could sue you for misrepresenting the property!

however I also personally would think of moving myself.

Can you see the part of my comment that you quoted that says, 'I live in a house but am always shushing and reminding my son to be quiet. I have single, older neighbours on either side and they have a right to quiet enjoyment of their homes.'

Having a child doesn't give carte blanche to destroy someone else's life. Kids don't have to shout, scream and act like wild animals at home. In fact, part of the socialisation process is teaching them not to be. Not to leap on the furniture. Stomp around (my son would do this on default if I didn't stop him) and bellow.

I’ve lived in a converted house that had wooden floors upstairs and the noise wss truly unbearable. I could hear everything - their footsteps, their muffled voices, them having sex, the TV. It was a horrible year living like that so I fully understand her frustrations. Equally unless your children are unreasonably loud, you’re just making normal noise as a family. Converted properties are not designed for multiple families so neither of you are unreasonable and unless you spend a fortune of sound proofing, there’s really no solution.

I was one of three kids in a house like this and the guy downstairs would knock loudly on the ceiling with a broom when we were being too loud. Presumably we were playing games that made a big noise when this happened but I found it quite intimidating as a child. My mum did her best to keep us quiet and we often had to go play upstairs or outside. That said, he still lives there and now has a good relationship with my mum. They do each other favours, look after each others cats when away and generally chat in the hallway. So seems all forgiven!

My take is do what you can do to keep the disturbance minimal but don’t let it rule your lives. You’re allowed to live in your home and your primary responsibility is to your children. It sounds like you’re taking a sensible approach with playing upstairs etc. Don’t let your neighbour harass you about this - as others have said they are welcome to complain to the council (who will most likely do nothing - noise complaints seem to have to be really bad before they’ll act on it and yours is just normal family living).

Absolutely not a fucking chance would I be entertaining this OP.

She purchased the property knowing full well that a family with 3 very young kids lived upstairs. She bears full responsibility for that and you have already been extremely accommodating.

We lived in the exact same set up a few years ago except our downstairs bedroom was bigger so that's where DH and I slept. Our DC slept upstairs in the loft conversion but when our twins were born they slept with us on ground floor.

When we first purchased the property the downstairs neighbour was really upset as she didn't work due to mental health problems and slept a lot In the day, I obviously tried to minimise noise where I could but that's the con of living in a downstairs flat and she moved pretty quickly after that, her uncle moved in and he worked long hours and liked a good drink at night and he never complained about the noise. We periodically bought him a good bottle of whisky as we appreciated we weren't the easiest of neighbours but again he knew what was above him before he moved in!

OP you own your property and you have the right to enjoy living there, 8am on a weekend is a perfectly acceptable time for children to be milling about and for the first poster to suggest punishing them for making noise well that's just ridiculous.

I would kindly remind her that she knew what she was buying and keep any further complaints as a record of her harassment.

You need to find the money to install carpets & sound proofing if you want this issue resolved.

After having done this you can legitimately say you’ve done all reasonable measures.

id caution you that young children only grow into heavier, noisier, crazier children - so this issue is only going to get worse

If you buy a flat then you have to accept that sometimes there will be noise

The way noise travels in a converted house is nothing like a flat. You hear absolutely everything. You enjoy no peace and quiet and you feel like you have no privacy either. It’s truly unbearable and slowly it does destroy you. I rented one for just a year and I remember the absolute anxiety I would feel all day waiting for them to come home and the dread when I heard their front door shut. At least in a house the upper floors are usually a carpeted so noise doesn’t really travel but converted houses are different. I didn’t know that when I rented one and presumably no one was at home when I viewed as I didn’t hear anything.

@Minimili what an absolutely vile story. harassing children during their bedtime?

Absolutely. I am fortunate enough to not live under anyone, but we had a problem neighbour who didn't seem 'able' to accommodate for the problem they were causing. I decided that if they didn't have to watch their noise, neither did I. Funny how they have now found a solution. Unfortunately for them, a couple of the things I started are quite enjoyable so will continue.

I mean, kids are kids and I probably wouldn't mind reasonable noise. I wouldn't throw a ball at the ceiling. But I do understand where the guy was coming from.

I honestly wouldn't put the two boys a floor down from me ..just think they are too young to be unsupervised down there next to kitchen and presumably the front door etc..that would increase my stress and make it difficult for me to relax in bed. Also in doing this the noise will definitely increase. Totally understand your dilemma.with same age kids it's impossible and neighbour seems to be at home a lot, is quiet and is now ultra sensitive and annoyed by noise so can hear a pin drop. Have you a floor plan or something of playroom ? Can we help with rearranging it for the adults ? That would make a lot more sense even on a practical level..getting up for a nice quiet coffee of a morning without waking them ? The kids all on one floor sounds much better.