Disparity & Spousal maintenance.

[Buuddyy]

AIBU to think asking for spousal maintenance in a 50/50 custody arrangement with no maintenance due from either party is just plain entitlement?

I think the problem @Buuddyy is that you have a very low opinion of the woman involved. I'm not sure what good can come of you getting invested in the private details of their divorce. If your relative is bad-mouthing her to you, I think he should stop. It is much better for their children if their dad and grandmother (?) can treat their mum with respect.

I would genuinely try to put a better spin on your opinion of her, it will be much better for your health. If experience in my family is anything to go by, it will also be much less embarrassing when a different story to the one you currently see emerges sometime in the future.

@Hyperbowl

'she now has no financial security now that she’s being divorced.'

I'm not sure where you have got that from. She will receive a settlement that will allow her to buy a house outright and she can up her hours, she is simply choosing not to.

I actually got on with my SIL up until recently. My opinion of her has changed during the divorce. I do think she is being a grasper in requesting SM.

She is not being bad mouthed to the children. My brother is coming to me for support and help reading for the legal documents. There is no different story to be heard. I've seen it all.

Love () that you think that a rich man’s kids should be supported by the state rather than my their father (hate).

You haven't seen it all @Buuddyy . No-one really know what goes on in a couple's relationship.

How is her mental health? Is she managing to keep up with her current job during the split? How are the DC? They may be needing extra support and reassurance from their mum at the moment.

Ah, the sister of the man. Got it. The poor, poor hard working man… while SHE sat on her hoop… got it.

Who said anything about her sitting around? I've explicitly said she works 3 days a week.

Everyone is doing fine. They have been separated for 3 years, the kids are well settled into the 50/50 routine.

I feel like you have no clue at all.
She doesn't have to contribute financially for her to still be contributing, she was contributing by being his wife and they were/are legally a team.
Surely, being married yourself you are also aware of what it means and the change in legal status?

FWIW I have been a single parent for years and worked through it all some part time and lots full time. I worry about not working and what the consequences might be if I got married again and lost my house, pension etc.... However I do believe in a fair system, him earning huge amounts of money and helping his exwife with money will ultimately help be better for the kids and is surely in their best interests.

It's about the kids.
Because it's not good for them to go between 1 house with a higher income than the other.
Your brother should put the kids first

That all sounds OK then. Try to let it go. Your brother will be giving you a rose tinted version of himself and a murky view of his ex wife.

In the case of your relative the disparity between the salaries is big and maintenance is to bridge the gap so that the children have comparable standards of living at both parents. Usually maintenance I believe (don’t know for sure) is paid until the youngest is 18.

I mean you’re not raising his children.

You’re both raising your joint children. Raising a child has two main fields of responsibility - direct care, and providing financially. Both are essential pars of being a parent. Both are essential to raising children.

My understanding of spousal mantienance is that it’s rare and awarded when a couple have chosen to split their responsibilities as parents so that one does more direct care and the other bears all the financial responsibility. At times this may mean there’s a period of time needed when the non-financial ex-spouse is supported until they are able to support themselves.

It’s not a reward for raising someone else’s children.

How will she nearly double her salary by adding an extra 2 days?

You know all the details and haven't explained the full asset split, inc his pension and her mortgage capacity. Would you feel better about it if she just got slightly more of the assets in lieu of spousal?

Do you truly believe your nieces / nephews would have the same standard of living with their Mum who earns £45k and has left the family home as with their Dad who has retained it and earns £160k? Excatly what "6 figure sum" has she been awarded here?

What I mean by that is she hasn’t the security of an ongoing high earning career like he does to support herself. It’s literally this that the spousal maintenance is for. You can argue ‘til you’re blue in the face that she wouldn’t have had the same earning potential but as she didn’t have the opportunity we will never know and that’s the mindset that the court will take if they award her. She was married to your brother for a significant period of time which proves she didn’t go into the marriage with the idea of just divorcing him after a couple of years for his money. She is entitled to what she will receive on this basis whether you like it or not. The division of assets is a separate matter again because it will be the bare minimum 50/50 for each person as is usual for a straight forward divorce settlement with no other contracts ie. Pre-nuptial type agreements as long as none apply.

It’s not about her upping her hours, it’s the fact that her job doesn’t compare remotely wage-wise to his even if she did. You’re wilfully ignoring points here which are what the law bases the criteria on for SM.

You can keep encouraging your brother to have negative opinions towards the mother of his children or you can support your brother through it in the right manner factually without telling him she’s such a nasty meany and prepare him for what could potentially come and to accept it just as a natural consequence of circumstance and divorce without encouraging hostility. You need to kill this idea in your brain that shes a villain and he’s a victim. If you care for your brothers children you wouldn’t be sat on here arguing that their mother is such a bad woman for claiming what’s rightfully owed to her and promote a healthy co-parenting relationship between them. You should feel shame for them that you’re encouraging this animosity towards their mother.

The courts are impartial and will award what’s fair whether you personally agree or can’t see the bigger picture doesn’t matter. They will not award SM unless they feel she is entitled to be compensated because it’s extremely rare so if she does, just know that she deserves it. That woman raised your brother’s children so he could maintain a successful career. That’s the bottom line of it. If the equal division of assets from the financial settlement affords her to buy an outright house then that’s the price of her divorce and she’s entitled to it for being his wife for years and raising his children.

How will she nearly double her salary by adding an extra 2 days?

Indeed.

Current take home £20k according to op.
So that's gross of £24k.
Over 3 days
So that's gross £40k if full time.
Which is £30k take home.

Which op said would be £45k

Interesting

I only have my own divorce to go off as experience, but I'm always intrigued by the always unanimous 'SM is so rare' on here, simply based on my own experience, which was only a few years ago.
At the time, my earnings were £10k (very part time) his £100k
Mediator spoke of SM as if it were absolutely the norm in the circumstances, so that went in to the consent order.
We then moved on to individual solicitors neither of whom said a word about the SM either way.
I honestly thought it was completely normal until I read these boards.

why are you so invested into somebody else? and how come you know so many details given that it's not your new partner. Seriously, I think you won't be happy in this relationship. Move on.

OP ignores anything that disputes her and her brother's narrative that he is being immensely generous and she is being "grasping" in seeking spousal maintenance ....

I think you will find OP that the ex wife's solicitor will rarely pursue something that has little likelihood of some success.

My ex was and is an arse in many ways - but one thing he did not do was rack up unnecessary solicitors costs - and neither did I. We both took the view that in doing so we were taking money from our kids - there being in actuality only one pot of money. Maybe you should urge your super generous brother to consider what savings he and his ex might make in drawing a line under this and him offering a compromise capitalised amount in lieu of spousal. And maybe you should wind your neck in given the general consensus on here, particularly amongst those of us who are lawyers and / or have been through divorces with high earners - whereas you have shown yourself to understand very little of the mechanics of asset splits and needs based awards.

I think there are so many nuances. I know a lot of SAHMs with a high earning partner and pretty much all of them have a cleaner, ironer, someone that cuts the grass and used/ uses nursery for their children at the very least part time. I’m not sure I agree that all SAHM have sacrificed a career to care for children or are the SAHM that’s are being represented by some of these comments.
I think it can only be considered on a case by case basis and should only be offered for a short period of time to allow time for the lower earner to get financial independence- however that looks.

eh? RTFT - its her brother not a romantic partner

Marriage is a partnership, if one parent gives up work, loses earning potential/pension/ni contributions and saves the family unit in childcare/cleaner etc whilst supporting their partner to excel in their career. Absolutely that person should receive spousal maintenance.

I think there probably are some SAHMs like that, in fact I know two myself @SundayBay, but they earn their keep by being 'trophy wives' often, where their husbands (Well both parties) are well aware in advance of what they would and wouldn't bring to the relationship, but accept the cost as a return for having their inflated egos massaged with a far prettier wife on their arm and a photo on their work desk than their own looks should return.

How did your brother manage to work 60 hours a week, yet still be home in time to put his children to bed?

How big a home could the ex buy outright for £170k?

And another rather strange occurrence...

The brother has been earning £180k since before the ex came along. (According to the op). And that's at least 14 years.

Yet the exes share of the joint assets accrued in all those years should be only £170k

The op didn't answer on pension split nor equity in the house, nor value of marital home, so unless they have spunked hundreds of thousands of pounds up the wall for years, £170k would be no where near half.