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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Disparity & Spousal maintenance.

228 replies

Buuddyy · 24/02/2025 16:43

AIBU to think asking for spousal maintenance in a 50/50 custody arrangement with no maintenance due from either party is just plain entitlement?

OP posts:
arethereanyleftatall · 24/02/2025 19:32

Both of them plus grandparents.

😂😂😂 equally? Hardly.

Buuddyy · 24/02/2025 19:32

@IfYouLook Settlement of £170k which is enough to buy a modest house outright in our area. If she were to go FT, £45k is more than enough to live on being mortgage free and having the kids half the time.

OP posts:
Buuddyy · 24/02/2025 19:35

arethereanyleftatall · 24/02/2025 19:25

suggest you read my previous comments, I haven't said anything of the sort!

No, you haven't, but that's the follow on logic isn't it.

You keep asserting that she hasn't contributed financially, but haven't brought up once that he hasn't contributed (much) to childcare.

Why does he want 50/50 now?

From what you've said, your relative sounds like an arsehole to me. I would bet money that it was she who divorced him. He wants the family home that they both contributed to, and has got it. She has no house. He wants 50/50 and has got it, despite not contributing 50:50 childcare ever before. It is extremely unlikely that he would have got to £160k, a house to himself and 2 tweens without her. I am so so glad my exhusband is not like this. Our bottom line was 'what is best for our dc' on our divorce. That was them staying in their home with me, he could financially facilitate that so he did. He also wouldn't dream of expecting the tax payer to help fund me and his two children when he earns enough to do so.

I'm not engaging with someone who is literally making up stories in their head.

OP posts:
arethereanyleftatall · 24/02/2025 19:39

Buuddyy · 24/02/2025 19:32

@IfYouLook Settlement of £170k which is enough to buy a modest house outright in our area. If she were to go FT, £45k is more than enough to live on being mortgage free and having the kids half the time.

How much is the family house worth and with what equity?
Have the pensions been equally split?

NeedsMustNet · 24/02/2025 19:39

just checking the facts here:

We have a husband on what £160? 180k? And a wife who has stayed at home to raise their kids - without drawing a salary / pension to do so, so he received all of this as a benefit from her - for many years. She now earns -£20/25k.

… and he doesn’t think he should make any ongoing payments to her at all? Or just thinks the ongoing payments should be smaller?

This reads like a textbook case in favour of ongoing support by the higher earning ex to the lower earning ex who took a major career hit in order to support the family.

arethereanyleftatall · 24/02/2025 19:40

I'm not engaging with someone who is literally making up stories in their head.

What are you talking about? This is my own experience!

Buuddyy · 24/02/2025 19:42

arethereanyleftatall · 24/02/2025 19:31

Probably because they love their kids and wish to see them as much as possible. I think going from seeing your children everyday to potentially only seeing them every other weekend would be awful. Why should the working parent be penalised for financially supporting the whole family for however many years?

  1. But he was never bothered about seeing them that much before? On £160k he probably barely saw them in the week?
  1. Isn't it about what's best for the dc? I wouldn't have thought it was nice for the kids to see their mother who has single-handedly raised them (given you keep asserting he is solely responsible for the finances) much much less in a much worse living situation. I think if I was this dc I wouldn't think very much of my father.
  1. Yes he was. Home around 6pm, so able to do story time and putting them to bed.
  2. She didn't single handedly raise them!
OP posts:
Drylogsonly · 24/02/2025 19:42

I have never heard of anyone being given spousal maintenance. I have heard of child support being paid for kids, or the lower earner being allowed more of shared assets in order to try to make the children’s lives more equal post split.
Mainly though I have heard time and time again of the lower earner -usually the woman who took a hit in their career and earnings- being left financially fucked post divorce

Buuddyy · 24/02/2025 19:46

NeedsMustNet · 24/02/2025 19:39

just checking the facts here:

We have a husband on what £160? 180k? And a wife who has stayed at home to raise their kids - without drawing a salary / pension to do so, so he received all of this as a benefit from her - for many years. She now earns -£20/25k.

… and he doesn’t think he should make any ongoing payments to her at all? Or just thinks the ongoing payments should be smaller?

This reads like a textbook case in favour of ongoing support by the higher earning ex to the lower earning ex who took a major career hit in order to support the family.

Correction. She has worked PT since having the children, earing £20k pa. She has an earning capacity of around £45k but has never wanted to up her hours even after the children went to school.

OP posts:
Uol2022 · 24/02/2025 19:47

Get married => sharing decisions and their consequences, both good and bad. Decisions like stepping back from work have very long term consequences, those consequences don’t go away with divorce. All consequences of decisions made during the marriage should be shared as far as possible, which in practical terms means all financial consequences. Her earnings and pension will have taken a hit, with effects lasting far into the future. He should share the burden of that, yes also beyond the end of the relationship.

Buuddyy · 24/02/2025 19:48

arethereanyleftatall · 24/02/2025 19:40

I'm not engaging with someone who is literally making up stories in their head.

What are you talking about? This is my own experience!

'From what you've said, your relative sounds like an arsehole to me. I would bet money that it was she who divorced him. He wants the family home that they both contributed to, and has got it. She has no house. He wants 50/50 and has got it, despite not contributing 50:50 childcare ever before. It is extremely unlikely that he would have got to £160k, a house to himself and 2 tweens without her.'

Are you well?

OP posts:
arethereanyleftatall · 24/02/2025 19:48

Genuinely op - which job allows you to finish at what 5pm (given commute) every single night and pays £180k? I think I want that job.

arethereanyleftatall · 24/02/2025 19:49

From what you've said, your relative sounds like an arsehole to me. I would bet money that it was she who divorced him. He wants the family home that they both contributed to, and has got it. She has no house. He wants 50/50 and has got it, despite not contributing 50:50 childcare ever before. It is extremely unlikely that he would have got to £160k, a house to himself and 2 tweens without her.'

This is the information you've given out op!!

Buuddyy · 24/02/2025 19:54

arethereanyleftatall · 24/02/2025 19:48

Genuinely op - which job allows you to finish at what 5pm (given commute) every single night and pays £180k? I think I want that job.

MD for a surveying company.

OP posts:
NoSoupForU · 24/02/2025 19:59

I think if one person is a very high earner, spousal maintenance should be paid for a fixed time, limited to how long it would reasonably take to retrain to enter the workplace so a few years max.

justanothercrapbedtime · 24/02/2025 20:00

I agree with you OP

Why should someone leave a marriage better off than if they had never had the good fortune to meet someone who earned more/planned for the future better eg pensions

FWIW I was the main earner - earnt 3 times ex. I worked hard multiple degrees professional qualifications - worked my ass off basically. He didn't. Happy to ride along on my coat tails whilst I went to work. I'm fortunate enough that I have managed to divorce keeping all my pensions (with over 10 times his) and the majority of the house equity. I don't particularly care that it's ruined him financially. He had his chance of a bloody good life and he blew it

BustyLaRoux · 24/02/2025 20:01

Mrsttcno1 · 24/02/2025 18:22

I never said it wasn’t a thing, I said it is very rare in the UK, which is true.

Fine. You win.

Buuddyy · 24/02/2025 20:01

arethereanyleftatall · 24/02/2025 19:49

From what you've said, your relative sounds like an arsehole to me. I would bet money that it was she who divorced him. He wants the family home that they both contributed to, and has got it. She has no house. He wants 50/50 and has got it, despite not contributing 50:50 childcare ever before. It is extremely unlikely that he would have got to £160k, a house to himself and 2 tweens without her.'

This is the information you've given out op!!

I certainly didn't tell you he was an 'arsehole' or that 'she divorced him.' Nor did I say 'they both contributed to' the house (she did not) or that he contributed much less towards childcare (he did not)

It is also not 'extremely unlikely he would have got to £160k' (it's actually £180k) considering he was earning this before they got together!

Like I said, you're pulling stories out of your arse.

OP posts:
Velvian · 24/02/2025 20:11

It sounds like he will be fine OP and will continue to have a very comfortable life, with the enjoyment of children that are more than halfway raised now.

A much easier prospect for him to take on 50% custody of 11 and 13yo than a 1 and 3yo. His career will not be impaired in the same way at this stage.

While the specifics of your relative's situation may seem unfair to you, you are likely to have an overly negative view of his ex at the moment, which will be no good to you and especially not to the children involved.

Please try to avoid any digs about 'daddy paying for everything ' or 'mummy being very lucky' - it will adversely affect your relationship with the children in the future, if not immediately.

arethereanyleftatall · 24/02/2025 20:12

That he is an arsehole is my own opinion, which I am allowed and stand by based on what you've said. I do think it would take an arsehole to earn £180k a year but not want to share a tiny proportion of that with the women who undoubtedly helped you receive it year on year for over a decade, who raised your dc, to enable your own children not to live half their time in much poorer surroundings.

As has been explained to you over and over, she did 'contribute to the house' via unpaid labour.

And OF COURSE he did not contribute equally to the childcare! He was at blooming work whilst she was home taking care of his dc!

Velvian · 24/02/2025 20:14

I think you would do well to take your relatives reports of how little his wife did, how much he did with a pinch of salt. I'm sure that his wife would have a different story to tell.

Buuddyy · 24/02/2025 20:21

arethereanyleftatall · 24/02/2025 20:12

That he is an arsehole is my own opinion, which I am allowed and stand by based on what you've said. I do think it would take an arsehole to earn £180k a year but not want to share a tiny proportion of that with the women who undoubtedly helped you receive it year on year for over a decade, who raised your dc, to enable your own children not to live half their time in much poorer surroundings.

As has been explained to you over and over, she did 'contribute to the house' via unpaid labour.

And OF COURSE he did not contribute equally to the childcare! He was at blooming work whilst she was home taking care of his dc!

She did not help him receive it, I have explained he was earning this long before they got together. She will be getting more than a 'tiny proportion' in the settlement.

'He was at blooming work whilst she was home taking care of his dc!' As was she 3 days of the week. So he works an extra 2 days than her but was still home to see them in the evenings.... That means he shouldn't have been given 50/50 !?

The only remotely valid point you make is: 'enable your own children not to live half their time in much poorer surroundings.'

Buying a house outright with the settlement and upping her hours would mean they had a very comfortable lifestyle. It is not the responsibility of my relative to make sure she can continue on her shopping sprees and live in an enormous house when the kids aren't there half the time.

OP posts:
Buuddyy · 24/02/2025 20:22

Velvian · 24/02/2025 20:14

I think you would do well to take your relatives reports of how little his wife did, how much he did with a pinch of salt. I'm sure that his wife would have a different story to tell.

He is my brother. He is no bullshitter. I have seen the paperwork.

OP posts:
Hyperbowl · 24/02/2025 20:24

Buuddyy · 24/02/2025 19:28

@Hyperbowl I'm aware of the difference between child maintenance and spousal maintenance, not sure why you thought I needed the explanation. I felt it relevant to mention as there could be a greater argument for SM if the children were living with their mother for more of the time.

'Your relative has clearly made considerable financial gains off the back off his ex or soon to be ex wife’s lack of career opportunity, experience and therefore earnings.'

Not really, he had a well established career long before she came on the scene. He put the hefty deposit down on the house and has paid the mortgage and bills solely ever since. Her wages have effectively been her own to spend how she wishes what has more often than not been on shopping. So it is quite the opposite in terms of financial gain actually.

Spousal maintenance isn’t usually decided on the fact that the mother has the children more since the split as more often than not the mother is the resident parent anyway and that’s what child maintenance is for. As you said, in this case it isn’t relevant. It’s normally decided when looking at the marriage as a whole who benefited the most financially and how much the other person had to sacrifice in order for the one who earned the most to get there and stay there. There has to be a significant disparity in both income and opportunity in order for it to be awarded so if as you say the circumstances aren’t so it wouldn’t even be considered.

He may have had a successful career before he married her but the crux of the matter will be how much his career would have suffered and not been as prosperous if she hadn’t been the one to continue to do the majority
of the care of his children for years in order for him to continue to be successful at the level that he was or is. Having children is an enormous decision because it naturally takes a lot of time, resources and career sacrifice in order to raise them. He chose to have children with her knowing this. The contract of marriage is there also to protect her being the most vulnerable party. The argument will be that her career opportunities and years of experience needed to get into any form of meaningful career now would have had to have been depleted for over a significant period of time after the children came along and that will have damaged her career options going forwards for the rest of her life. In that time he’s continued to have the ability to not only earn a high wage but gain the years of experience and valuable skills in order to get him where he is today. That’s what he is paying for. She can’t financially support herself adequately to the standard she and more importantly her children have been accustomed to because of it and the children will suffer when he can comfortably pay to avoid it.

The fact she works part time and doesn’t earn anywhere near as much isn’t relevant now either. The argument will be made that if she had the same opportunities that he had then she may have had a stable income to support herself now and wouldn’t need spousal support.

The fact he paid all the mortgage whilst may on the surface seem unfair, is also not hugely relevant. She cared for his children so he could earn the money to pay the bills without it any affect on his career. When the children were ill, she would have been the one to take care of them. When the children had medical or school related appointments she would have taken them or been there for them. When the children had hobbies or clubs or social opportunities that fell during her husbands working hours she would have been the one to take them so it had no affect on his business or career. Here is his financial gain. If he had to cut his hours and working days short to provide equal care he wouldn’t have had as much success with his business and earn what he does now. Why shouldn’t she have her wages to herself if they’re a fraction of what he was earning and she was doing the majority of the care and not able to work and earn full time.

He signed his marriage contract knowing that half of his assets would belong to her so he was clearly happy to do so. It’s entirely fair for him to have to pay for his past career stability at her potential expense when she now has nowhere near the career or earning potential she would have if she had worked for those ten years or so but she now has no financial security now that she’s being divorced.

muggart · 24/02/2025 20:28

@MsCactus exactly, whether it's possible to maintain a good career trajectory after kids, really depends on the career.

I was taking home £170k pre-kids and ended up quitting my job to be a SAHP because it wasn't compatible with parenting. DH was earning a similar amount so one of us had to stop or change to a different job otherwise we wouldn't really be raising our kids, parenting would have needed to be outsourced hugely. Incidentally, that's how I was raised- nannies, summer camps abroad, boarding schools, and limited relationships with my family member. It's not what either me or DH wanted for our family life.

DH lives a charmed life now, never doing any cooking, cleaning, never a night wake or adjusting work hours around sick kids. He has hobbies, friends and the sleep schedule of someone without children but with the bonus of a lovely family life. If we were to divorce I would absolutely feel like I've "earnt" a good chunk of the family finances until I got back on my feet. (And no way would it be the tax payers responsibility to bail out privileged families like mine for the people who think benefits are the answer).